Learning letters and numbers...

[Catbert]

Oh god - am I sucummbing to the competitive pressures of parenthood already and DD1 is only 2 and a half?

I have recently noticed a lot of her peers (from my ante natal class) know their letters and numbers... DD1 doesn't know any really. She doesn't really seem interested in learning them if I ever do have time to sit and try and "teach" them...

Two boys in particular are currently only children, and my DD2 has just turned 1. I have been quite busy with trying to manage two small children for the last year, but is this just a pathetic excuse for never making the time to sit and teach her important things like letters and numbers? I'm not very good at these things really.

I used to think I would be confident in not comparing etc, but now I am getting myself worked up about "playing and social interaction" being an important part of being a young child, vs whether she will go to school being the only child who cannot read by the time she gets there.

Just interested to know whether any children out there who are the same age, also not currently learning these things, whether some children just seem naturally pre-disposed to picking up things like this, whether those who do know their letters and numbers have had it repeated to them over and again until they know them, whether you think it's very important that I get cracking on this, so she is not at a disadvantage in the coming couple of years.

I will have to wait until next week until I can talk to the nursery about when they start expecting them to know these things...

Thanks for your patience in reading my blurb!

[singersgirl]

Just joining in to say that neither of my DSs, now 6 and 3, knew any of their letters at your daughter's age, and (FWIW!) DS1 is now a very fluent reader. DS2, who is now 3.5, has learned his letters since December, because they started teaching them at nursery and he wanted to learn more. But at 2.5 he knew all the Justice League superheroes and their weapons of choice! Will stand him in good stead some day, I'm sure....

[beatie]

And clearly I need to rewrite my whole post with better grammar.

[beatie]

Well, I frequent an American Internet board - all the parents have childrent he same age as my DD and I get a bit annoyed by the constant bragging by some parents that their children know their numbers and letters and know the alphabet song - as if this puts them on an early route to being a star at maths or reading.

I don't believe it is indicative of anything in particular except memory. For some reason socirety attributes more prowess to the recital of a sequence of numbers than it does to the recital of a nursery rhyme - sung in sequence. Or your child is considered brighter because they can label some letters of the alphabet than they are if they can label all the fruit and vegetables at the green grocers. They are the same skills.

I do think some children are predisposed to have an interest in letters and numbers - perhaps because they are seen more frequently in books and childrens toys. Whilst it's hardly a hindrance for them to be able to label these things early on but it isn't of any particular benefit. I also think that some parents spend a lot of time working on these things with their children and put way too much emphasis on letter and number repetition when it means nothing until the child is old enough to understand concepts of quantity and language.

[swedishmum]

I have my Mrs Teacher head on. Even if children can use words at an early age don't panic - they may very well not understand 5 or 6 even though they can recite from 1 to 20. I panic less about what dd (4th child) knows. If a parent of a child her age (14months) said they could count to 2/20/1000000 I would take it with a pinch of salt and enjoy the ever decreasing babyhood our children now seem to get. Incedentally, she can now read fluently...

[slug]

If it is still bothering you (and quite frankly, why get worried, she's only 2) could you get some of those bath letter sets. I think they're abouT £2 from Tesco. The sluglet has some and gleefully identifies the letters in her name, along with 'mummy', 'daddy', 'giant doggies' etc.

If you're lucky you could have that proud mummy moment (as I had) when she randomly managed to get the order of the letters right in her (4 letter) name AND THERE WAS A WITNESS!!!!!

[Catbert]

Cirle... CIRCLE! Again. Doh!

[Catbert]

Thanks

My friend pointed out to me that my daughter was the only one in the group who can draw a "real" face (cirle, dots for eyes, nose, smiley mouth and hair!)

AND she can hold a tune!

There's plenty to be proud of!

She does love books - so I will go back to enjoy the playing and "making the most of" her being a joyful toddler...

Just wanted to pop back and say thanks.

[saadia]

Can I just add that I only learned to read when I started school, many moons ago, and I had just arrived here from abroad not knowing any English. But throughout my school time my reading age was always much more advanced than my actual age, and way ahead of classmates. So it just goes to show that pre-school knowledge of reading and counting is not necessarily an indicator of future achievement.

I had a Scottish teacher when I started school, and she would give us words to learn every night -I think this probably played a big part.

[snailspace]

Message withdrawn

[bellababe]

My dd will be 5 in July. Because we are in Scotland she doesn't start school until August (but then they are straight home with reading homework on the first day so it's not the same level as reception). She has no interest at all in letters or numbers, and can write her own name and nothing more (and I have to add that own name is very easy!) At a recent parents' evening I expressed concern about this and her teacher (and she is in the pre-school year of the school she will attend next year) assured me that she is right on par, she is very bright and will do well next year, and that it is all covered in their first year anyway.
I have no concerns about her at all. Let her enjoy being small because the hard work comes soon enough anyway.

[LIZS]

Agree with Wallace - not ridiculous at all. Peer pressure is horrible and if it makes you feel concerned about your child this is the place to voice it.

[Wallace]

Catbert - you weren't being at all ridiculous! Some children the same age as your dd do naturally pick up letters and numbers, but others probably have been taught them.
I think most two year olds don't know letters and numbers, but you only hear about the ones that do. In real life a parent is much more likely to say "Little Johnny knows his numbers", than to say "Sarah can't recognise a single number", so because you only hear about the ones who can, you don't realise that there are probably more who can't

xx

[Catbert]

Yes. However, like I said - as I only really know about parenting up to and including 2 and a half - and the world, and it's emphasis on education changes dramatically all the time, and no frame of reference apart from my own small group of friends - it was useful to come and be told it was really OK not to worry at the moment.

Afterall, there are people on here with much older children, like you, who can give me the bigger picture, and also a teacher (Enthusia) who can give me the current thinking on the curriculum.

It's very helpful and reassuring.

Didn't mean to sound, or be ridiculous.

[stripey]

ds2 is 2y7mths and does recognise 1-10, can count meaningfully and can recite 1-20 although I really haven't taught him he just picks things up easily and spends a lot of time with is 4.5yr old brother.

I think some children just have an interest in things and like to learn them. He often picks up books and asks what things are and seems to have a good memory as the next time he picks up the book he will know the shape or whatever. I have a friend who is repeatedly trying to teach her 2.4 year old colours and get frustrated when he does not know them.

I certainly wouldn't worry about your dd, she will learn things in her own time 2.5 is IMO too young to be expecting children to know things if they are not ready. As a few others have suggested Thomas the Tank is a great way for children to learn numbers as both mine adore the engines and probably learnt most of their numbers this way. We also have the phonics radio on the fridge although it has capital letters not lower case.

[tigi]

I have to be honest and say that I had to re-read this thread to check I had read the age of the children you are discussing correctly! I do not know any children of this age who know any letters at all, and find the idea rather ridiculous that you are worried about your childs lack of understanding! My oldest child (10) was able to write his name at age 4, and knew all the letters 4-5, which I thought was early! He is now top of his class with a reading age 13, with high scores also in maths. He probably knew his numbers from age 3 because of Thomas The Tank. Younger child (3) at playschool knows nothing yet, and I had not even thought about it until he is 4+. Middle child started reading at nursery 4.5, (reception now) and is now on Y1 reading books, so I really wouldn't be concerned at this extremelly young age!

[Jimjams]

teaching concepts such a heavier and lighter, more and less etc is actually more useful at this age.

[Jimjams]

yes good point bobbybob. ds1 was quick with numbers and rote counting (shape recognition and memory) whereas ds2 understands quantity and counting.

[bobbybob]

When you say learnt their numbers and letter - meaningfully or they can point and name or recite parrot fashion?

DS will point to 3 lightbulbs on the ceiling and say "two lightbulbs off, one lightbulb on". He will count his fingers to 5, or his legs to two. He knows how to bring 2 shoes to me. This is all counting. I haven't "taught" any of these things, he's picked them up from songs (one, two, three four five, once I caught a fish alive)and me nattering away "how many apples should we buy? Two? One, Two" Some of his peers can count to 20, but can't bring you two blocks if asked.

As far as letters go, his grandparents bought him the Phonics Radio, which he will not be parted from (takes it to bed). He also has a jigsaw with letters. I name them as he puts them in (using the phonic as well, picked up from that bloomin phonics radio). In the same way that if it was a transport puzzle I would say "car" truck" boat" etc.

What I'm trying to say is that I am talking about letters and numbers like any other object, and if he wants to learn a few thats fine.

[Wallace]

Thats what i thought JImjams. Maybe she just finds letters more interesting. I think ds learnt his numbers first, but that was partly to do with Thomas the Tank Engine

Catbert, Ds is still quite number orientated, I wonder if dd will be more language?

[Catbert]

Anyway - DH just pointed out I cannot spell...

TraJectory...

Oops. Again. sigh...

[Jimjams]

recognising letters and numerals are dealt with in the same place- it's just shape recognition which is why autistic ds1 was so good at it. Langauge learning has been far from automatic for him! (hasn't happened yet).

Ds2 picked up numbers faster than letters- I suspect its just a case of each to their own.

[Catbert]

Wallace - not sure, but I think that numbers (and mathamatics), and letters (and speech) are dealt with in different parts of the brain, although you would imagine that this separation of "skills" probably starts with the learning of skills - perhaps not?

To me, it would make more sense that because they learn language as a matter of automatic development, and mathamatics (other than the complex maths all brains are capable of, i.e. learning to calculate the distance and tragectory of a thrown ball... pretty amazing of you work it out mathamatically) as a skill is more "learnt" - this is why numbers are perhaps slower than letters at this stage?

Or perhaps that just sounds like utter bunkham!

[Gwenick]

juniper - I'm not getting butterflies at all - he's learnt lots of stuff at nursery and I'm sure once he starts school he'll pick it up soon enough

[juniperdewdrop]

Gwen my ds2 is 4.5 too and sounds just like yours. He starts school in Sep too and I'm getting butterflies already

[Wallace]

While on this subject... Anyone know why dd (3) can easily recognise letters, but doesn't seem to have a clue about numbers (apart from number 3!)

It doesn't concern me, I just think it is odd that she picks one up quickly, but not the other.