is she like every other toddler?

[Evesmama]

obviously being Eve's mum, i am very proud of her and think she's the first little girl to do everything, but i was wondering wether i am right or is this usual for children her age?

she can count to 13?
she takes dirty pots, dummies etc out to kitchen and puts in sink(have never asked her to do this, she just does it)

she turns tv and sky box off when we go out of her own accord

and her sentences are along the lines of..mammy, please..put.dora..plora on telly??is this a lot

however, she's only just gettin the jist of using a fork/spoon with her meals?

what does anyone think?

[Jimjams]

pointing out something of interest is the most important form of pointing. I can count the number of times ds1 has done it on one hand.

what i mean about relying on visual cues is that a certain image my have cued a reponse. It's hard to explain but I have recently read a book written by an adult who appears very like ds1/ She is effectively non-verbal as an adult, and as a child learned language through written word, although she had no idea that the written word ball was the same as the spoken word ball. I suspect ds1 is doing something similar.

DS1 may have spontaneous phrases but they would never be understood. M ost of his "speech" is just intonation. So the only phrases that are understood are repeated ones- set pharases. He only speaks using set phrases. But to be honest mainly he doesn't bother and drags us off if he wants something. We try to re-direct to PECS as that works well - and can be understood by everyone so will be more use to him than speech.

Although at 2 he appeared a bit odd (bit quiet and thoughtful really- an people used to say he was an academic type- because of the reading etc and the memory) you would never have placed him as severely learning disabled. There were hints that something was amiss-but they were very subtle. I don't think any children in his school reach even level 1 of the national curriculum (and they stay there until they're 19). ALthough at 2 he "passed" a test for his local private school they'd run for the hllls now!

I'd recommend george and sam by charlotte moore- she talks about this sort of thing a lot. And george is interesting as he seemed so amazingly bright but she points out why it was actually signalling something else entirely (even though they didn't realise at the time),

[Surfermum]

I think they maybe develop in different areas at different times. We recently went to a birthday party, several of the others threw their hands up in horror as the children (all around 22m)were given their drinks in paper cups. One tipped his straight onto his plate, and the others had theirs very carefully held by mummy. I knew what would happen - surferbaby just picked hers up and drank from it and put it back on the table.

I cringed as it seems no matter what problems the others have, going to sleep, waking, feeding, tantrums, I just don't have any problems with surferbaby. It's a standing joke, she's known as text book baby.

But we then went to the soft play area and she was very tentatively climbing about, while they all climbed like monkeys and whizzed around her. I was so relieved!

[leelee39]

Thanks, Jimjams. I guess it's true when they say that no two cases are alike. Glad to hear that he is doing well in his school. Did he have any spontaneous phrase making (more juice mama or come on mama or play playdough, etc....) as a young toddler (say 18 - 24 months) or was it all repitition of phrases? Also, what do you mean about relying heavily on visual cues? When he was dx'd with mild language delay at 26 months, what was missing from his speech? Thanks so much. I am trying to figure this whole thing out and put my worries in perspective, etc. Lately, I am feeling much better about ds's development but it is so hard to know exactly what people mean when you read something - sometimes I find myself thinking, oh, ds does that all the time, and then when I get some more clarification, i realize, there I go again, it actually seems quite different, KWIM? Ds points now (finally) often, but not usually "on command." He might point to something interesting and tell me what it is but he rarely points when I say, "where is the (whatever)?" Our dev. ped. has chalked this up to personality which half the time seems to fit, and then I wonder if I am jsut making excuses. Thanks again.

[wobblyknicks]

evesmama - i think they just vary so wildly at this age. My dd is 20 months too and clears stuff up all by herself - bowls, plates, her changing stuff etc and has been using adult cutlery for ages BUT she doesn't say any 'proper' words (apart from bye, mama etc) and can't count, and of course I'd love it if she could.

Sounds like she's concentrating on verbal stuff and ignoring physical things, just like my dd does the opposite.

[Jimjams]

leelee the only reason I suspected autism was because I came across the checklist for autism in toddlers (CHAT) test when he was 17 months and realised he failed because he didn't point. i told a few people who told me I was being ridiculous. After all he was clearly sociable (although I now know too passive) and bright.

To be fair even when he started seeing experts he was missed. So for example at 26 months he saw an autism specilaist SALT who said that he "definitely wasn't autistic" and diagnosed him with mild language delay.

I suspect the reason he was missed was because he was a) passive and b)relying heavily on visual cues and c) has a ridiculous memory. Things like his ability to remember rhyme seems to be unaffected as well. So although he couldn't say yes or no (still can't) he could recite (with extremely porr intonation- but good enough to understand what he was saying) all his nursery rhymes and many books (providing they rhymed). He could also fill in missing words in familiar books. All of which served to hide the extent of his language problems. He was also able to read odd words- which hid the problems.

That sort of thing isn't all that unusual in autism. The book George and Sam describes an extreme example in george. As a toddler he seemed stunningly bright and his language was exceptional- but it hid the very severe language disorder he had- his memory for learned phrases compensated for it very well.

IN the case of ds1 most people who work with him come to the conclusion that he is bright- some have said "very", but that is coupled with very severe learning difficulties and for some reason very limited language. It's entirely appropriate that he is in an SLD/PMLD school, whereas had someone told me that when he was 2 I would never have believed them.

[leelee39]

JIMJAMS: Your ds1's journey sounds so confusing! I wonder how you first suspected autism (so often I understand people worry about delayed speech). Was there anything you noticed aside from playskills? My ds says "okay" and "no," doesn't really say yes too often. Also, he doesn't answer questions 100% of the time. He answers most of the time but sometimes I'll ask him, "do you want more green peas?" and he'll just ignore me and ask me for juice or something else. Again, it's not too often that he'll ignore me but there are times I give him a choice (do you want A or B) and he just won't answer. Does this sound familiar or is this typical with toddlers?

HULABABY:
I just had to post because your child sounds a lot like my son! Ds is now 23 months and very verbal and I always am saying that verbal is "his thing." He speaks hundreds and hundreds of words, small sentences, knows his letters, #s, colors, shapes, etc. (and has for months). However, he just isn't into puzzles AT ALL! He's all right with the ones with pegs where the pieces just fit in singly. But jigsaws - even those 2 piece ones - are of no interest to him. He either tells me "Mama put 'gether" or just throws the pieces or ignores them and goes onto something else. I think his fine motor skills just aren't up to par. Does this sound normal at 23 months? He uses a spoon, draws with a crayon,etc. loves playing with balls and cars and musical toys, blocks, plays pretend, plays playdough. But he just doesn't get the puzzle thing.

[Hulababy]

My DD's language has always been her "thing", more so then anything else. She too was talking n sentences by 18 months, and was clear enough for other people to understand her very early on. At nearly 3yo it is still something people comment on - her language and understanding. She also learnt to count by climbing stairs - last winter, when she was 19/20 months our lift was out of order so we did a lot of stair counting and it caught on.

However, I think babies and children are all so different, and they do tend to focus on a few things they enjoy.catch on to quickly.

DD hates jigsaws and will just not attempt them at all. Not interested int he slightest, so even a simple 6 piece jigsaw is something she says she can't do. Nursery claim she can. I have no personal evidence. It is obviously not her thing, whereas language, letters, etc. is.

I just let DD enjoy doing the stuff she enjoys, and I don't worry about the stuff she doesn't do - not yet anyway, she isn't quite 3 yet. Time for worry about things like this later.

[mummylonglegs]

My little one's had a big focus on language too. She's 2.5 now and I can't quite remember what she was doing at 20 months (mummy amnesia!) but I remember her counting to 10 quite early on. Funnily enough even though she can say quite long and complex sentences with reasonably good grammer, she's not at all interested in reading letters or numbers yet. She is interested in words in books and is always asking me what a particular word says. She's got good fine motor skills but is quite small and light and has taken an age to master steps and any complex kind of climbing although she walked relatively early at 11 months.

All in all I don't think many children are 'geniuses', I think they all have strengths and weaknesses and it's easy to overlook one thing when looking for another. There's quite a lot of both pride and anxiety among parents in relation to children's language skills but I've noticed that a little boy she plays with who talks a fraction as well as dd does actually has a better understanding of things like facial expressions and emotions in books. I mentioned this to his mum who worries about his talking and she hadn't noticed it. It's a shame really.

I don't know what I think about influence from parents on a child's 'talents.' Dp and I read a lot and have encouraged a love of books in dd which is reflected in her love of books. But then again I love singing and at all the toddler groups etc. I join in loads and dd's NEVER does, she's too shy. So my influence seems to have had an effect when it's in an area she has a natural propensity towards and not when she doesn't. If that makes sense?

[CountessDracula]

My dd was similar at that age, was talking in whole sentences.

Her counting came from the stairs too, she could do up to 10 and then back down again!

I do remember when she was about 21 months we were in france, came round a corner and she said " Mummy, Daddy, look at that enourmous tree" which made us LOL.

However she was fairly tentative physically, I think they tend to be very verbal or very physical

[Evesmama]

thanks Silvera

the one thing ive noticed shes not as advanced in(maybe thats the wrong word?), she 'susses' people out first..she wont run into a room and start playing with others, she watches, plays on her own, then gradually moves in.
today however, we went to playgroup and theres a little girl almost 2 years older than Eve, but they both seem to have taken a shine to eachother and after 1/2 hour of really clinging to me..off she went with Hannah and that was it!...chasing eachother, cuddling eachother, bouncing manically on the soft play running around giggling, she was like a different child and i was so touched to see her with her new little friend
so have had to quietly ask her mum if she can come to Eve's main birthday party(am also having a little one at playgroup), so they can both have fun, i think it'll make Eve's day to see her there

[silvera]

Interaction is a HUGE factor, without stimulation a child has no basis to develop, although some respond more readily than others. Even though parents are naturally proud of their children, there is no doubt that if you think your child is doing exeptionally well...then you are right, after all no-one knows a child better than her parents. A child that can hold up 3 fingers and know it is 3, and why it is 3, is at a later developmental stage than a child that can count parrot fashion to 1000. You are certainly right to be proud of Eve, and of yourself!

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

[Donbean]

My ds at 20 months is getting on ok i think.
Similar to Eve he tells me what he wants,however more often than not its just me and dh who understand what it is he is asking for or telling us. Most of his words are clear as a bell, some not. He counts the stairs as we have done this since he was tiny.
I dont tend to spend any time wondering about how similar in development he is with other kids of his age as i just take each thing as it comes TBH.
More important to me is that he is thriving, happy and absorbing his surroundings.
We are very lucky in that have many friends with children of ds's age and i know that they are all on a par developmentally wise and achieve milestones within a week or so of each other. This if any thing has been an excellent gauge and reassuring to those mums who have been worried.
I am just so proud of every little thing that he does and every single day its some thing new!

[helsi]

Sounds very bright. I think my dd is bright. She came up to me the other day and asked me for her "stethoscope" (from her doctors play set). How many 2 yr olds know what one of those is?

[Evesmama]

thanks ghosty, piffle and beatie

she is very good at motor skills too, just prefers to use her finger to eat instead of fiddling with a fork!, however she was having ravioli on toast yesterday and i made such a big fuss when she stabbed the fork in it, she ate the full lot with it
she also loves singing away to her favourite 'toons', but sings a bit like me and makes some of the words up

[Jimjams]

disagree as well. DS1 knew all his letters and numbers by some ridiculously early age. Before the age of 2 knew the symbols for divided by and times and equals. Counted to 17 - or however many stairs we had (in fact wouldn't come down the stairs unless we counted them). But couldn't say yes or no (still can't aged almost 6). Is severely autistic - has had more interaction directed at him than than you could imagine.

DS2 was late to talk, but when he did talk seemed to know his letters and numbers as well (not encouraged my me- too many shades of autism for me- although now he's 3 and I know he's find I am encouraging it more). Despite being late to talk I have been told his vocabularly is mature for his age. But what I like watching him do more than anything is play with his toys. DS1 can't play with toys and I take a real pleasure in leaving ds2 alone and listening to him making up little stories with his toys.

Ds1 gets far far more interaction thrown at him. DS2 just does things and learns by copying (as most children do). It makes life much much easier for him. In terms of absolute intelligence I suspect they are very similar. However ds1 will never live independently and ds2 will be able to do whatever he wants. It's an extreme example but I don't think its about interaction at all- unless you have a child who is so starved of interaction they are deprived.

[piffle]

disagree a little actually, with my son we counted everything and he was adding and great with numbers very early
dd has been counted too more probably as I have been with her more, but at 28 mths she can only say two.
It depends on the child but obviously giving them the opportunity means they have more chance to develop.
That said dd is one mean footballer
dd also cleas up, closes all drawers in bedroom before leaving, turns off tv/radio and also puts away washing and her plates from dishwashers as well as hlping to load it, getting her own plate and breakfast choice out.
If she could reach her door handle and open the fridge I could probably leave her to it
LOL
Your little lass does sound bright as button though Evesmama!

[beatie]

Whenever I compare my toddler with my friends toddlers, they seem to fall into two camps. The ones who developed langauge quickest were slower to master motor skills and vice versa. Mostly they all catch up to the same level in the end.

My daughter has gone for motor skills first and language devlopment second. I think I'd rather she was like eve and have it the other way round must make for less tantrums and a less exhausted mummy.

[ghosty]

Of course, interaction is important but I don't think it is ALL to do with it ....

[ghosty]

She sounds like a bright little girl Evesmama!!

I disagree about the interaction thing personally ....
My DS was like little Eve ... very advanced in language etc by the age of two.
DD (13 months) however, who has the same parents and therefore the same interaction (DS is at school now so I have lots of time with her), is not nearly as advanced as DS was at the same age .... I have done nothing different, in fact I spend more time interacting with her to encourage her to do more stuff but she will only do things at her own speed, which is fine in my book.

[Evesmama]

well am very pleased with her and its seems they all do something that extra bit special dont they?

i always read books to dd and now when ever she picks any of her library of books from her toy box!, she 'reads' along with me, saying words she remembers and always says the middle and the last words of each ryhme/sentence eg:lucky the PUPPY loves to PLAY, she RUNS and JUMPS and SPLASHES all DAY", she just loves reading and singing, i think she must have a really good memory

[Nemo1977]

I agree about it being about interaction, my Ds is 17mths and can say about 20-30 words but thats only recent. However the HV has said his physical development is on a par with a 3yr old...which surprised me.

He is also another tot who likes to take his things into the kitchen etc and can just seem to do things he hasnt been shown...so they are all different and think we are all proud mummies...lol

[dabihp]

tracey - she could say them when I pointed to them.
now at 28 mtnhs, although she cant 'read' she can recognise many words and reads every letter and number she sees....

I would also recommend watchign countdown with you little ones!

[handlemecarefully]

At just 20 months she sounds like quite a bright spark

[TracyK]

How do you mean 'knew all the alphabet letters'? I've got them on the fridge too - but my 12mo ds just loves to scuff them off and kick them around the room. Does your dd recite them or just point to the right ones when asked?