So if we accept that having a 'good ' or 'easy' baby is down to luck of the draw, at what age do we start to influence our children's behaviour?

[Jojay]

Another thread got me thinking - many people say that having a good sleeper, or a 'contented' baby is purely down to luck, so when do the parents actions start to impact on behaviour?

Any thoughts?

[edam]

Yeah, and the other thing is that obviously all the good things about ds come from my side of the family...

[MannyMoeAndJack]

What riles many parents is the smug assumption that a placid baby (temperament) is the result of parental influence

Yes, it's a feature of human nature that parents are all too keen to take credit for their dc's positive achievements....but are mysteriously tardy to take credit for anything negative that those same dc achieve!!!

Selective logic!

[MannyMoeAndJack]

Musing aloud, sometimes I wonder about the division of influence...just how much influence do we bring to bear on our dc's behaviour and just how much influence do they bring to bear on ours? Is it 50-50? Culturally dependent? etc, etc.

My ds is SN and I would say the influence on behaviour has mainly come from him to us!!

[cory]

It is important to distinguish between temperament and behaviour.

Of course we can influence children's behaviour- otherwise human society would be impossible. One day I will get through to my ds on the subject of table manners

What riles many parents is the smug assumption that a placid baby (temperament) is the result of parental influence.

I also find it irritating when parents don't allow for the fact that most children go through phases. So they come on Mumsnet boasting about how their dc (at a naturally placid age) is much better behaved than a slightly older child (who has reached a stroppy age); and they seem to think it's their parenting. Ha!

Or they get terribly upset and indignant when their dc hits one of the ages that are known to be difficult (such as the terrible twos or the 6-year testosterone surge), because it must mean that somebody is doing something wrong (the school, the nursery, the influence of naughty children, or a sudden failure on the part of the unhappy mother etc).

[edam]

Very good point, Manny. The way your child responds to your behaviour affects your behaviour which affects their response, etc. etc. etc.

I'd say ds was an 'easy' baby. But what that really means is I found it easy to be with him at that stage - we'd figured each other out. By the time he was nearly three, I was wondering if the 'terrible twos' were a myth.

Ha ha ha bloody ha. Three to four was MUCH more challenging...

[MannyMoeAndJack]

I think that we influence behaviour right from the start - but I also think that this works both ways; we are influenced by our dc right from the start too. It's a bit like the chicken and egg conundrum.

[Jojay]

Totally agree that there is a huge difference between temperament and behaviour - if I treated all babies the way I treated my DS, they would not all turn out the same.

That's also why some 'techniques' for sleeping or feeding may work for some but not others.

However, I do think that we can influence behaviour from a relatively young age, by being consistent in how we approach things, by giving lots of praise when we do what we wnat them to do, and by setting clear boundries.

Thanks for your comments everyone - it's been very thought provoking........

[blueshoes]

juuule, even if you intend to post on the other thread , I agree there are babies that prefer to left alone when overtired and just need a short cry to fall asleep. In those cases, their need is indeed to be allowed to cry for a short time.

Also, there are babies who cry who no matter what you do and you never get to the bottom of what is ailing them - both my dcs were frequently of this category.

[FabioUnblogged]

.

[juuule]

In fact, I think I've replied on the wrong thread Getting confused with this one.

[juuule]

Sorry meant Blueshoes

[juuule]

Ah but Joanna, if you find out that when you investigate your crying baby they really only want to be left alone then why pick them up and fuss around?

[blueshoes]

Joanna, also want to say that good eaters don't always stay that way. And fussy eaters can get better. 9 months is still very little. I would say that weaning only starts to get established from now. My niece was a champion eater until she turned one. Now her parents are happy if she eats an olive. My dd would gave me no end of trouble as a baby (is still no champion eater) but generally has a varied diet over the course of a week!

[blueshoes]

Joanna, you are right that the readiness of a child for certain behaviours can be dependent on age - and the later you leave it, the easier it is to influence it. For example, sleep - babies' sleeping patterns mature, they are able to understand limits with greater comprehension. I understand what you say about your ds going purple - my dcs are the same. dd 4.10 now sleeps like a dream, all through my ds' 1.10 night antics. It will get better.

Deviant, I cannot imagine what a parent is supposed to do if they are not allowed to find out what is distressing a baby. A baby cries, you go to it. It is not rocket science. Of course you are right. Those people who tell you to leave a crying baby sound most strange.

[juuule]

FeelingDeviant this sort of thing.

[Joanna82]

I have a nine month old and I've come to the conclusion that I can't easily influence his behaviour at this age.

Like others including VioletSmile have said, one parent can try a sleeping method for example with one child and feel proud when they have success, this will lead them to think that it is the method and their parenting skills which have changed the behaviour ... and this will be partly true.

However, another parent can try just as hard with the same method and have no success at all.

Is it the method that is wrong? Is the second parent just not as good at following the advice? Or is it down to the baby and their innate temperament?

When I tried the controlled crying technique on my DS he was so upset within 5 minutes that he had gone purple and made himself sick. I am NEVER doing that again. Another friend had a sleep through baby after one attempt.

I have had problems with weaning too ... and before any of you with easy babies wonder, I use all my own homemade organic food, make meal time as fun as possible and reward him with all manner of high jinx when he eats any of his dinner at all.

Maybe when he is older I will be able to influence his behaviour ... but at the moment I have to accept that he will take the lead.

[FeelingDeviant]

what's child-led parenting?

[juuule]

Although there will be variations in the way children from the same family are treated, I would have thought that generally they would be treated from the same philosophical standpoint. Obviously it's possible that parents viewpoints might change over the years, too. But if a parent has believes in child-led parenting then surely that's quite likely to apply to all their children but with slight adaptations to allow for the personality of the child.

[FeelingDeviant]

OP never mentions temperament, only behaviour - both in thread title and posting. Huge difference between behaviour and temperament. IMHO your temperament is part of your personality and is innate and won't change unless you suffer from a traumatic experience.

I suppose one of the bees I have in my bonnet about this is that when DD has on occasion cried, a couple of people have said to me that nothing is wrong, and that's what babies do - cry. I'm a huge believer in there being a reason why a baby is behaving in a certain way (ie crying or whingeing) and it's my job as a parent to find out why and act accordingly.

Edam - quite agree that children in same family are not treated the same. I'm fully aware that my next DC may behave completely differently to DD because I won't be 100% there for him/her.

[foxymolly]

My dd (9 months) is not the most contented baby. she is fiercly independant and very vocal. On a normal day, she won't want to be held and she won't want to be put down either, she can be really frustrating.
Dispite not being an easy baby she has a rountine, eats three meals a day and sleeps 12 hrs a night.
My friend often says how difficult my dd is compared to hers, who is very laid back and can be left to play by self quite happily. Yet her dd has no routine, is a fussy eater and is a bad sleeper.

So I agree that temperment cannot be changed but I believe parents directly affect behaviour from an early age.

[IAteRosemaryConleyForBreakfast]

I agree with the statement that "personality is innate". I think this is totally separate from behaviour though, which is really just the manifestation of a personality's interaction with the environment.

You can definitely mould behaviour from a very early age but temperament comes pre-installed. I think the fact that personality ot temperament is a foundation for how the child interacts with the world means you can only influence it to a degree. I also think the degree you can influence a child is probably related to the temperament too - some personalities are more malleable than others, some children are more naturally eager to please and some come more independent from birth.

[edam]

I read an interesting book recently by a behavioural psychologist. His argument was that all the research shows that personality is innate. Twins raised apart are more like each other than they are like their adoptive siblings raised in the same household, for instance. Adoptive siblings are no more alike each other than any pair of random strangers, apparently.

He also argued that of course parents treat different children differently - so you can't really say 'my ds is easy going and my dd hard work yet they've both been treated the same'. Partly environment - being the second child is different to being an only, as the first was for some years. And your parents are older if you are the second, etc. etc. etc. BUT that this is down to the parents reacting to the different children, not down to the parents preferring one or the other. Something to do with genotype, IIRC.

[blueshoes]

Without having read this thread in huge detail, I don't recall which poster actually said they could not influence behaviour, as specifically distinguished from temperament, other than tongue-in-cheek.

People don't always make the distinction between temperament and behaviour. Indeed as they are closely linked in many ways. It is helpful for the OP to make this distinction.

[FeelingDeviant]

Blueshoes - yes, completely agree you can't change temperament. But the OP asked about BEHAVIOUR and not TEMPERAMENT, which was why I posed the question.

I just could not imagine a parent truly believing they are unable to change a child's BEHAVIOUR.

[blueshoes]

deviant, I cannot change my dcs' temperament, but I would not say I cannot change their behaviour . To change behaviour, particularly of infants, the question is at what cost. For easier children, they might respond quickly to sleep training. For mine, I would have to break their spirit first which to me for not worth it.

And I do believe parental influence starts from birth.

My role is to guide their behaviours gently, whilst taking note of their readiness to move to the next stage. One difference with the parent of an easy child is that I have to choose my battles carefully.