Can't cope with her anymore

[nutcracker]

Dd2 (5) has just had the most almighty tantrum and i just cannot deal with her anymore.

I had to go into the shop after school and as they rarely have sweets i told them they could pick something. Dd1 picked hers and Dd2 asked for chewing gum. I said no. She kept on and on asking for chewing gum, and on and on and on. Eventually i said she had to pick something else now as i was going to the till. She didn't, so i went to the till and paid.
Then i went back to DD2 to see if she had finally made a desicion and she was still asking for chewing gum. I explained again why she couldn't have it and told her she could have something esle but she had to pick now cos i was waiting to go and it was starting to rain.
I warned her 3 times that if she didn't hurry up she would have nothing. Still she insisted on chewing gum and so i took her kicking and screaming out of the shop.

She then launched into the biggest tantrum she has ever had, which included kicking me, biting me, pinching me, punching me and trying to tip the pushchair up (with ds in).
I had to push the buggy and try and pull her along, she kept sitting on the floor, kicking my ankles and pinching my hands so i would let go.
I couldn't let go until we had crossed a busy road and then as soon as i did she ran off and i had to leave dd1 with the buggy to run after her.

Once we were nearly home i let her go again as i couldn't steer the bugy and so she sat on the floor and threw her coat in the road.

We eventually got home with her screaming, me almost shaking and on the verge of tears. I've got scrathces all over my hands and my ankles hurt like hell.
Dd2 is now in her pj's in her room.

She has always been hard to handle, even as a baby but because she has always been good at nursery and now at school, no one wants to know. I had her ears tested just incase she wasn't hearing me properly but her hearing is fine and so now the h.v doesn't want to know either.

I cannot control her when she is like this, it is even dangerous as she nearl;y had us all in the road at onme point and she really wanted to hurt me i could see that.

She can be the most lovely and sweetest little girl but when goes into one thats it.

I just don't know what to do with her anymore

[webmum]

how's things now Nutcrucker

have you tried omega 3?

I'mk finding it difficult to get dd1 to have them.

[webmum]

Hi Nutcracker,

I was going to post about my dd1 who has very similar behaviour to yours, when I found this thread, I wonder how you're doing?

We have tantrums like yours virtually everyday sometimes several times a day. As you say she has a problem with accepting she can't ahve evrything and some hings cannot be done, like when she starts repeating she wants dad when he's in the office as if it was me preventing him from being at home. She does teh 'repeating' thing 'I want' etc. The otehr night she screames and kicked for an hour and 15 minutes while I was desperately trying to settle dd2 who's 3.5 months.

A lot of people will dismiss her behaviour sayong its a reaction to dd2's arrival but she's always been like this, she had improved slightly before I had dd2, but in the last few weeks its gone completely out of hand. Like yours she's a star at nursery, and with anyone but dh and me, I think its an authority thing as well, other people do not have this power on her.

She's very stubborn and reacts badly at being told what to do, and I always try to get around things first, but she cvannot be distracted (even as a baby it was impossible) and eventually I ahve to resort to withdraw treats from her. But everything seems to wind her up even more, if I try to cuddle her, if I shout, ignore her (she follows to another room to make sure I cna hear),smack (tried once or twice), talk calmly, star charts or coins don't work, because she wants them even if she has not behaved well, so they become another cause of conflict. I am absolutely worn out, and avoiding her tantrums is not easy as they come out of the blue and the most unexpexted situations.

I tried to make sure she was eating properly (I thought it was lack of energy), that she goes out regularly (thought it might be lack of fresh air and physical activity), they seemed to work for a little while, but now she's worse and nothing seems to work.

She is 3 yrs and 9 months, has always been difficult and demanding, not a difficult birth, but I did have some form (undiagnosed) of PND, and I can't cope anymore, I just want to be able to enjoy my little girl!!

[Blu]

How's it going, Nutcracker?

[nutcracker]

No don't think it was an excuse Blu cos she has got a bit of a prob with handwashing at the mo. She gets convinced that there are germs on her hands even when she has washed them. Wouldn't let me touch her quilt the other night cos i hadn't washed my hands.

I think i'd be crap at making home like school tbh.
She really really loves her teacher and the classroom assistant which helps i think, although it's funny cos now she likes her so much i think occasionally she gets a bit too comfy with the situation and does start to play up iykwim.

[Blu]

It's good that she seems to settle at school and none of this sort of thing happens there. Do you think she feels more secure in a structured environment? maybe you could try making home liek school (in all the best ways, of course!)

Do you think the handwashing was just an excuse for a little adventuring out of bed?

[nutcracker]

Erm how do you mean BH ??? Her awful behaviour was the thing that worried me most but now her poss obsession with handwashing is worrying me laot more.

[Blossomhill]

Do you think it's purely behavioural Nutcracker or do you have other concerns?

[nutcracker]

Blu - I didn't realise i'd started this thread on the same day but yeah your right i remember now.

I'm not sure if i should be worried about that or not though. I mean she only had it once, a 2 week course and tbh i think she was hard to handle before that (hard to remember now, seems like shes always been like it)

Jimjams - should i be worried about that do you think ???

[Blu]

Nutty, it sounds as if you are working so hard with your little girl, and doing all the right things.
I hope this isn't completely out of order, and I truly apologise if it is, but I remember the day you started this thread was also the time you realised she had had the anti-biotic combination that has been exposed as harmful. I am not sure whether you have had any professional advice for her so far - does it make you wonder?
Anyway, hang on tight, you've achieved so much for your family this year, new house etc - and I'm sure you can get this sorted.
XXXXX

[nutcracker]

She had us up several times last night for various reasons but one was cos she needed the loo. Dp took her, she had a wee and washed her hands and popped back into bed.

20 mins later she was out of bed again and sneaking into bathroom...why ?? to wash her hands again, she said they still had germs on

Think her obsession with it is getting worse. She also fretted about her hands being greasy when she was eating her dinner tonight and got up to wash them.

[Buki]

Keep trying things, never give up. Try if you can to step back from the moment and see if there is any triggers. Ive gone through this kind of thing with one of my daughters and one of my sons. Both were found to be sensitive to different foods. My daughter is chocolate - one piece changes her into some kind of monster. She becomes totally self centered but she can now recognise that she is out of control and that she needs to get help, lemonade helps, bread or an apple calms her.

[nutcracker]

Arrrggggghhhh she is gonna drive me mad.

Dd1 and Dd2 had friends round for tea today (sisters). Dd2 played up the whole time, screaming , shouting, hiting me and her sister. She wouldn't share, take turns or anything.

Then when the girls mom came to pick them up Dd2 ran out of the front door, all the way down the street and round the corner. I couldn't run after her as i was holding Ds, so the girls mom chased her, but when she caught her up and tried to pick her up Dd just sat on the floor refusing to budge. I eventually got her and had to drag her back.

I just haven't a clue what to do with her, i'm completely at the end of my tether, i just cannot cope with her.

[nutcracker]

I just think that because she only misbehaves at home that they think i'm lying or making it up.

When dd was at nursery they were constantly telling me how quiet she was and i would say well you know, she isn't at home, and it was obvious they didn't belive it.

Eventually her nursery teacher saw her in action at a school event and was amazed that she behaved like that (and it was a pretty mild one).

Her teachers now are the same though, they just don't see how she can be that bad, if she isn't at school.

I'm hoping i'll get an appointment with the school nurse soon, as i'm now more anxious to get her OCD ish behaviour addressed more than anything.

[coppertop]

When ds2 spends time with other people they always comment on how well-behaved he was. They find it hard to believe that when he is at home he has frequent screaming and furniture-throwing fits. Yesterday it got so bad that I had to carry him to a safe place, close the door and go and sit on the stairs to get away from him. I didn't even have the energy to get the camcorder out to tape it for his assessment next week.

[Sonnet]

Hi Nutcracker - I havn;t read all this r=thread but have just picked up on something you said about it must be your fault as she is as good as gold at school/Nursery!
IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT! - My DD2 who is just 4 can behave just like your DD and yes - she is so good at nursery and school that they just don't believe she has it in her!
I have observed her for a year now and notice that most of these strops come on after she has been to nursery or pre-school or if somebody like my mum or MIL have looked after her for the day and I have come to the conclusion that it is a reaction to being good all day - she has tried her hardest to do everything right and be so good taht now she has relaxed out it all coms - hope this makes sense! - see if this applies to yiur DD too! I find that if I understand why things happen it helps me to deal with it!

[nutcracker]

Wow my Dd is an indigo child, thats exactly her that description. Thanks so much for that Jordylass, i will definatly be buying that book.

Jimjams - Thanks for your link too, i will also be buying that. She definatly does have a prob with understanding when she can't have or do something, hence the repeating of whatever it is she wants over and over and over.
I have now spoken to her teacher about it and she said she hasn't noticed any obbsesive handwashing but the teaching assistant said that Dd never ever has to be reminded to wash her hands after going to the toilet and even sometimes reminds other kids to do so.

Regarding her behaviour, they don;t have any probs with it at school at all, which always makes me fell like such a crap mom, but hey ho.
I find it really hard to describe her tantrums to people as i often feel that they are not quite getting the picture and it sounds like i'm just moaning about her.
We had to fill in a questionaire for the school nurse the other day and so i have requested a meeting with her to see if she can help with either the behaviour or the poss OCD.

Jordylass, i also meant to add that i have done the holding thing with dd before, when she was a bit younger and it did help a bit, might have to ry it again.


Thanks to everyone for your help.

[kernowcat]

Wow! Where did you hear of indigo child sounds just like my DS! Had a quick peek at the link will def go back and check it out further thanks!
Hope things are looking up nutcracker theres alot of love and empathy out there for you, take heart.

[jordylass]

I really felt for you reading through this thread as 2 of my 5 children have behaved similarly. The youngest one was so difficult to deal with, but you could see underneath it all she was desperatly unhappy and I think she does feel that the world is against her.
When she was 7 she started talking about killing herself and I made an app with a psycholgist who wanted to see the whole family. We went a couple of times, but I knew that I couldn't go through with the prescribed treatment of not giving in to her.
She would sit at the top of the stairs banging herself off the rails or walls, screaming and crying.
She is 10 now and goes to a school which I think has heped her tremendously, and, as it's a boarding school, I can cope when she is home, (although I think the tantrums have stopped).
The last one was last year we had got to a caravan site it was late, we were trying to get the awning up, she was tired from the journey and she craves attention, which she 'couldn't' have right then. I couldn't cope with the screaming on a small quiet caravan site, I remembered one of my friends saying how she would hold on to her special needs little boy when he had a tantrum, I did this with her and it worked a treat.
Her back to my stomach, holding her hands crossed across her front and her legs trapped between mine, so she couldn't hurt anyone or herself, she did struggle A LOT, but I kept talking to her in a low voice telling, her I loved her and she was special et, etc, when she calmed down she was depseratley tired and sobbing, when we talked about it afterwards she said she really liked me holding onto her like that.

I always felt I was to blame for some of their behaviour, the 2 who were difficult were the most difficult births I had, and I had PND after both of them. I think middle child is also something to do with it, and they both have a desperate need for attention, which however much they get, is never enough.

The best bit of advice I got from the psycholgist was 'if you're going to give in, do it straight away', rather than, no, no, no ohh, go on then. Although it sounds like you're better at not giving in than I am.

Sorry for the long post I hope some of it helps.

I also saw this when I was looking for help on the net about my children and wondered if it applied.

What is an indigo Child?
As a summary, here are the ten attributes that best describe this new kind of child, the Indigo Child (named by those who predicted it).

They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it)

They have a feeling of "deserving to be here," and are surprised when others don't share that.

Self-worth is not a big issue. They often tell the parents "who they are."

They have difficulty with absolute authority (authority without explanation or choice).

They simply will not do certain things; for example, waiting in line is difficult for them.

They get frustrated with systems that are ritually oriented and don't require creative thought.

They often see better ways of doing things, both at home and in school, which makes them seem like "system busters" (nonconforming to any system).

They seem antisocial unless they are with their own kind. If there are no others of like consciousness around them, they often turn inward, feeling like no other human understands them.

School is often extremely difficult for them socially.

They will not respond to "guilt" discipline ("Wait till your father gets home and finds out what you did").

They are not shy in letting you know what they need.

Indigo Child

[Jimjams]

nutty- forgive me I've lost the other thread. Did I ever recommend this book to you? It's just that being unable to let go of an idea can be a touch of OCD. It's something that causes real problems here (this weekend ds1 has wanted dh to put him on his shoulders to look over pour neighbours fence asgain and again and again- put him down and 5 mns later starts again- he cannot be distracted by anythiing else- has to do it - we then do the countdown and he's fine again for 5 minutes when the screaming starts). The book may be helpful for giving behaviour management tips.

I don't think its you- I've read your other threads and there are bits that remind me of ds1's OCD streak. It's hard to manage- his OCD type stuff is more of a problem at the moment than the anything else.

[BFG]

hi nutcracker, I have a dd6 who has screaming hitting and crying tantrums periodically, and what has helped is this: put 3 £1 (or 50p's whatever) coins out on permanent view and say to your dd that in one weeks' time she can have them all. Get her to hold them (every day), get her to imagine what she could buy with all that money. THen, explain that next time she has a tantrum you will take one away and when you do, make sure that they are in her hand when you pick one out and put it back in your purse. I have done this with some success. My daughter is also a red head and is musically gifted so me and dh have a very colourful future ahead of us! GOod luck, hope this idea helps - my hv gave me this advice.

[Yurtgirl]

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[nutcracker]

Yurtgirl - I did consider that it may be probs with me and dp that were causing it, but honestly don't think it is. She has always been a very difficult child though.

So i should start with efelax then, thanks, will look for it.

[Yurtgirl]

Message withdrawn

[Jimjams]

eyeQ has more children going off the rails than the other brands- it's to do with the omega 3mega6 ratio they use. Efalex may be a safer one to start with.