Early neglect = major development delay

[JumpandScore]

Friends adopted a little girl 2 years ago. She's now 4yo. Gorgeous smily little thing who had a terrible start. Basically spent her first year in a cot being ignored.

She's doing really well now and no behavioural problems have come to light but she is severely delayed. Speech and motor skills more like a 2yo.

Obviously, her start in life will have caused some problems but I am surprised just how severe they are.

Is this "normal"? It's made me think about how important the early years are and wonder where I went wrong/could have done better with my dc.

[AWhistlingWoman]

Thank you ASAS and Vague and apologies for all the many errors in my post. That will teach me for trying to write anything vaguely coherent whilst DD3 is zooming around my ankles!

Worried that I have been really downbeat jump. Interestingly, I would have said that the developmental gap looked largest at about 4yo, the same age your friend's little girl is now. DD2 deficits are in similar areas, speech and motor skills. She has made progress since then and some things have just been delayed rather than disordered. DD2 got there in her own sweet time and I hope that this may be the case for your friend's daughter too.

[VagueIdeas]

Whistling

You sound like a wonderful, very clued up Mum. Your daughter will be lucky to have you fighting her corner whatever happens.

[ASAS]

Oh dear Whistling, here I am, crying on a bus. The stress of it all must have impacted you too.

[AWhistlingWoman]

steadfastly ignores CIO debate

Thanks vague .I'm glad that your ill health as a baby has had no longer lasting effects. It's so difficult with intensive care treatment as you can never say what is attributable to that prolonged period of treatment, what might be caused by the very reasons that caused a baby or child to end up in an ICU in the first instance and what is down to personality.

I agree that intensive care treatment is not the same as neglect. I did try to make some distinction with my use of quotes which was possibly a bit clumsy of me. There ARE many things that can be done to comfort and interact with child and baby who are in very poor health and they are, in effect, the opposite of neglected in many ways!

I have been told many things about my daughter's development. That she will catch up in time to that she will be permanently damaged. I was originally told that she would catch up before she started school. She's seven now and I'm still waiting, she has a lot of SEN but, who knows, she's surprised us all before and may well do so again! And she might have had those needs anyway? I'll never know.

However I feel it would be naive to think that these experiences have no effect in any or all cases. Certainly in DD2's case I have been told that some of elements of her additional needs are very likely down to her ICU stay - disordered motor and sensory processing pathways which are thought by her OT to be down to lack of 'normal' input. In what this which led me to comment on the thread in the first instance as I really recognised sharoncarol's description. But, like with a lot of outcomes from ICU, it is probably highly variable from child to child and case to case?

[SushiAndTheBanshees]

CIO techniques are wholly irrelevant to this discussion. Parents who do CIO would, I would hope, spend the whole of the rest of the baby's day to day life doing non-neglectful things: hugging, cuddling, singing, feeding, washing, clothing, loving, caring.

It is quite frankly facile to suggest that a baby whose life consists of 90% love and care and 10% teaching that makes the baby cry, might be at risk of some sort of developmental delay. It's utter nonsense.

Would you suggest that to stop a toddler bolting across a busy road by talking kindly and softly and gently, rather than yanking and firmly and loudly and pointedly saying "no" is a better way of teaching the child a lesson? Or that the latter technique would be neglectful?

You underestimate babies and small children if you do. They (we) are capable of far greater intelligence than that.

[DeirdreDoo]

and conflating does not equal comparing.

[DeirdreDoo]

Okay. I've said what I wanted to. I thought it was relevant; clearly you and several others disagree. I am sorry if that's the case and will bugger off.

There's no need to be so rude about it though, and yes, it was genuine, so there's no need for your sarcasm.

[LibrariesGaveUsP0wer]

Oh give over. This isn't the place for your CIO soap box.

Incidentally, I don't like CIO either . I just think conflating it with neglect (which you are doing with all your "Ooh just posing the question " ) is scaremongering rubbish.

[DeirdreDoo]

As I said before, I am talking more about some hours of crying. To whom is the point offensive?

[CoteDAzur]

You are comparing some minutes of crying before falling asleep with neglect. Your "point" is nonsense and it is offensive.

[DeirdreDoo]

And given how many adults and older children experienced CIO without apparent ill effects

Do you have a source for that? I have none for my suggestions.

I'm expressing an opinion, which seemed relevant - if you disagree feel free to ignore it.

[LibrariesGaveUsP0wer]

Not all issues have a directly linear relationship though. The 'question' is just that. And given how many adults and older children experienced CIO without apparent ill effects,I am not sure why you are determined to equate the two.

[Lancelottie]

Lack of perfection does not = neglect.

Or if it does, my parenting is frankly buggered.

[DeirdreDoo]

Also I would question whether the (somewhat accepted, especially in certain circles) use of CIO is something that can persuade those who consistently neglect their children in a far worse way, that they are doing something at the perhaps more radical end of 'normal'.

[DeirdreDoo]

I'm not trying to compare it. I'm trying to point out that as so many posters have equated ignoring young children (for non specified periods of time) with damage, perhaps people who are considering doing CIO, which is essentially the same thing on a (probably) far smaller scale, should question whether that too causes damage.

I think it's at the thin end of the same wedge. Frankly.

And I use 'probably' in the context Cote referred to as I have no evidence either way.

[LibrariesGaveUsP0wer]

What is your point then Deirdre? It's a bit unclear?

[VagueIdeas]

This thread is really not the place to start grinding one's axe about CIO. You cannot compare that to profound and sustained neglect over a period of months, and frankly I think it's stupid to even try.

AWhistlingWoman - FWIW I was born prematurely some 35 years ago and spent my early months in an incubator. I have no lasting issues (aside from crap eyesight) and so you may find that your DD will catch up in time. Her stoical nature may also be just personality. I'm really not sure intensive care is the same as neglect, because although she may have missed out on cuddles, she would have experienced lots of loving care and attention in other ways. So I don't think you should worry about or regret these things you cannot change

[DeirdreDoo]

So focus on that and not the actual point I was making, Cote.

[CoteDAzur]

"Ya, 5 minutes = probably non irreversibly damaging."

That's a crazy thing to say and makes you sound like a nut.

5 minutes of crying damages kids but is "probably" reversible?

Ya, I think not.

[AWhistlingWoman]

P1nkP0ppy I listened to a very interesting podcast from the team who wrote 'Freakonomics' on the 30 million words research

freakonomics.com/2015/11/19/does-early-education-come-way-too-late-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/

Fascinating and sobering :(

[shutupandshop]

Its crossed my mind to try cio with my 3 year old recently! He can be a mare to get to sleep. can't do it

[P1nkP0ppy]

On a different angle my DS was telling me that he'd read the children from some disadvantaged families can have heard/said up to 30 million less words by the time they're 4 years old than the average child.

There is still so much we don't know about the nurture v nature effect.

[shutupandshop]

So sad. I can't fathom putting a baby in a cot and ignoring her/him. How? Why?

[DeirdreDoo]

Ya, 5 minutes = probably non irreversibly damaging. People sometimes leave children to cry for - well I have seen posts on here in the recent past where they leave them for a couple of hours.

I don't think that's a great idea.

[CoteDAzur]

A friend's DS has global developmental delay. She was working full time and her DS was with a babysitter all day. Apparently the babysitter just plonked him in a bouncer and left him in front of music videos on TV They only realized that there was a problem when he was about 3. My friend quit work and is with him 24/7 now and he has specialist care but still is not anywhere near catching up with his peers. I hope it works out better for your friend's DD, OP.