3 Wk old: If he's not eating or sleeping he's crying. We're losing the plot quickly!!

[Elguapo]

Hello My wife and I have just added a beautiful little boy to the neighbourhood, but unfortunately as beautiful as we may think he is and as happy as we are to have him, he seems to be having some serious trouble just "existing" in the world at the moment. The main issue is that he has begun to unconsolably scream and cry for hours at a time throughout the day and night. If he is not eating or sleeping (which he almost never does) he is crying. He is only three weeks old and I appreciate that everything around him, and all the sensations both internally and externally are probably pretty intense at this stage, however three weeks of intense sleep deprivation has broken us both down and we are finding our coping abilities are beginning to crumble.

I suppose our question is "Is this normal?" I know all babies are different and all babies cry or are fussy, don't sleep etc etc. But when does screaming and crying become something to be concerned about? We tried very hard to study up and become as informed as we possibly could regarding what was to come, developmental stages, fourth trimester, calming techniques (Dr. Karp, slings) etc, but nothing has prepared us for the intensity of our little man's constant upset. It is definitely affecting our ability to bond with him as we would like to because we rarely have the opportunity to see a calm contented baby.

We are tired of the well intentioned "welcome to parenthood" comments from friends and the like and would love to at least hear that we are not the only people that have gone through this. Everyone keeps saying "it will all get better, I promise", but when? The magic number that keeps coming up is three months, does that mean we have to endure three months of guantanamo levels of sleep deprivation before it gets better? I literally broke down in tears at the thought of not being able to bond with this amazing little boy who we wanted so badly because of this issue.

He was given a full clean bill of health and is putting on weight, so as far as anyone can tell he is as healthy as can be. Of course there are the million and one worse case scenarios that go through our heads that he has some horrible disease, is neuro A-typical or worst of all we have done something to cause all of this chaos for this little guy. My gut feeling is that he's only three weeks old and that even though it's pretty intense at the moment, what we're dealing with is hard but normal and it will indeed get better.

We would really appreciate hearing any of your similar experiences and or solutions you may have found along the way. I'm not sure there is an answer to our questions, Nevertheless a little help and support can go a long way.

[Hirewiredays]

I would look into cranial osteopathy, a good sling, a white noise app and infacol! It will get better and I'm doing it all again for a third time!

[Bdc123]

Hi OP, this is a long shot as you posted this originally 6 years ago, but I am in the same position with my baby now.

I just wanted to know if you ever found out what was wrong, and when things go easier - I am having a hard time all round and so is baby!

[superbabysmummy]

Haven't read all the above posts so hoping I have the gist of it right, just wanted to offer support. DD is 22 months now and thinking back to when she was 3 weeks gives me shivers!

I know that helplessness and exhaustion feeling very well! She had silent reflux and an undiagnosed tongue tie... No matter how much I went on at health visitors, midwife, GP no one spotted it. At 6 weeks I took her to see the osteopath for a cranial, she spotted it and within a week in hospital getting fixed, a week later she was a completely different baby and we finally started to move on.

As soon as the tongue tie was sorted the reflux seemed like a more manageable issue. Propping her Moses basket helped a lot with that. So my message is, hang in there, it will be over soon, you'll get into a routine and life will return to normal...

[minipie]

Ok, so he's been checked for tongue tie and it's not that (though that said... doctors and midwives can often get it wrong... but let's assume they are right here)

If Gaviscon appears to help then I'd say the most likely culprit is silent reflux.

If it persists despite the gaviscon, and if you reckon it is reflux, suggest you go back to the GP and ask for Ranitidine - it is MUCH more effective than gaviscon, and easier to get into a BF baby. Also my (excellent) GP tells me it has very few side effects so no real downside to giving it. Another thing to try if it persists (and if you are sure it is reflux) is your wife going dairy free because reflux is often linked to dairy allergy - this is bloody hard work though and she needs the calcium, so she shouldn't do it unless it's clear there is a reflux problem and the drugs aren't helping. Hopefully if your DS does have reflux he will grow out of it quickly and you'll never get to the stage of needing the stronger drugs or dairy free.

There is also likely to be a big element of overtiredness - if he's been barely sleeping for a while he will be horribly overtired which in turn makes him harder to get to sleep and more likely to ping awake when you put him down or after a v short nap. The more sleep you can get into him one way or another (walks in the buggy/sling perhaps) the better this will get. 4 weeks is a classic time for overtiredness anyway as it's when they start being more inquisitive and less sleepy, so often have to be persuaded to sleep rather than just dropping off.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[GinAndSonic]

3 weeks? Growth spurt?
Babies are bloody hard work, im glad im past the baby stage. I hope things improve soon.

[FloJo151]

also if low supply is an issue try fenugreek (does make you smell of curry though!) and porridge is supposed to be good for low supply. these lactation cookie recipie is good 1 cup self raising wholemeal flour (if you have plain flour, add 1/2 tsp baking powder)
1/2 cup low fat butter (I use virgin coconut oil sometimes, it makes them go lush!!)
3/4 cup brown sugar
2 tablespoons flaxseed meal
1 egg
2-3 tablespoons of water (depends if you prefer moister cookies)
1 tablespoon vanilla
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1-2 tablespoons of brewers yeast (i usually add TONES more for extra potency!).
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 & 1/2 cups oats (get the thicker cut oats if you can)
I usually double up all the mixture and leave half the mix to eat raw as that is super duper potent! guarantee satisfaction every time!

[FloJo151]

hi didn't want to read and run, sounds like things poss might be improving and its great that u have gaviscon. From what you've described it does sound very much like silent reflux if he is not puking up loads. Gaviscon might work well but if it doesn't go back and ask for 1 of these Ranitidine, Losec, or Domperidone. they seem to work better for silent reflux.

my dd (dc 3) is now 7 months but when she was first born I was convinced that she had silent reflux - constant hiccups, - coughing, gaging, spluttering when bf, - spitting up ages after the last feed, - suddenly screaming in obvious pain about 30 or so mins of being led down to sleep, - hearing gurgling and wheezing. I used to make sure I kept her upright after feeding for at least 30 mins before finally laying her down. this did help a little.
however I also thought that maybe it was all due to a very fast letdown which I knew I had but which didn't seem to bother my other dc when they were little. So I looked into and used the advice about positions when feeding. I made sure that as many feeds as poss were down with me laying back supported with pillows and dd as upright as poss. it was kinda like a modified rugby ball hold.
this did seem to work and the symptoms did seem to ease off a little so I kept putting off using the gaviscon as she no longer seemed in pain.

by 12/13 weeks practically all the symptoms disappeared and she was like a different baby so it will pass!!!

[Elguapo]

DS was checked multiple times for tongue tie both anterior and posterior multiple times at the hospital twice by paediatricians and once by the midwife and he's definitely not tongue tied. We saw the GP and got a prescription yesterday for infant Gaviscon, the results of which look promising but needs a good week before we can say for sure. The same can be said for the craniosacral therapy sessions from last week, we just have to wait and see.

Saying all of that and trying not to be too optimistic, He seems to be a bit different over this last week. He has had at least 5 or 6 moments when he seemed completely relaxed and just hanging out and happy for more than 10 minutes at a time, which is a massive change compared to the majority of the last few weeks. He's also easier to settle and is sleeping longer, although he still seems truly upset by the idea of being awake. If he's not sleeping it's basically an all day activity trying to keep him calm or entertained with some sort of movement.

Regarding the comment above, we totally agree that the reality of a new baby vs what we thought it would be has been quite shocking and more challenging that we ever thought. I know this will all start to mellow at some point and if my senses are correct I think we might be starting to turn a corner already. My wife is definitely taking the physical brunt of all of this as not only is she sleep deprived but she is supplying breakfast, lunch and dinner to our little guy and breast feeding has definitely been posing it's own challenges, low supply difficulty with getting a good latch consistently etc. I'm looking forward to laughing about it all in the future.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello OP

I don't think there is a normal where babies behaviour and development is concerned.
After reading your OP I must admit that this wasn't normal for any of our 3, but its not to say it isn't normal for your baby.
If you are at all worried speak to your HV, doctor etc just to be on the safe side.
Hope you get some sleep soon

[Playthegameout]

Our Ds (10 months)was very similar, it absolutely drove me over the edge and I developed pnd. For me the reality of having a baby vs how I had imagined it to be, was an intense shock!

Ds was checked for tongue tie, I changed my diet, tried cranial osteopathy, had all the meds for reflux and was tested for CMPI. The whole process of elimination took 5 months, by which time Ds has out grown whatever had troubled him and become a very giggly, happy and chilled little man. I'm not saying those things won't work for you, or trying to dissuade you from following up on the possibility of reflux etc, but don't set your hopes on them. In the words of my fantastic health visitor, even if they don't physically help your lo, they remove the sense of helplessness you feel because you're being proactive.

Practical things that saved mine and DH's sanity were, walking. Everyday, anywhere. Working in shifts so we both got a block of sleep, accepting any break we were offered, getting out to massage class/baby group/other baby gathering and seeing Ds was not the only one crying a lot. It will pass, it seems like an age now, but I promise on reflection it will pass in the blink of an eye. Keep supporting each other and be kind to yourselves

[lucyclaudeclaude]

Clutching at straws maybe, but try Sleepy Sounds app, you can choose any white noise I.E tumble drier, hoover, hairdrier. Worked wonders getting our now 5 month old twins to sleep. We had 2 months of utter exhaustion but now blissful 8 hours sleep! Thank God, thought I was losing it. Coffee and Red Bull help (for u not baby) otherwise it's just sitting it out. The first smiles really do make up for it!

[Surfsup1]

Oh and I found a baby bjorn (or similar) bouncer worked wonders on collicy grumpy days.

[Surfsup1]

If he was born by cs then it's important to get him on a good baby-probiotic too, even though you're breast feeding.

Those first 100 days of darkness are always, always exhausting, but they do end. It sounds like things might be staring to get a little better for you and if you find that certain foods act as triggers then you can really turn things around quickly.

Best of luck!!

[hartmel]

When I read the he would only sleep longer when you had him in the sling kind of upright, sounds to me like silent reflux.

DS was also like that, then I purchased one of those slightly raised pillows made for reflux baby and he slept 5-8 hours through..

He his now 12 month old and still using the pillow but has no silent reflux since about 4 month..

Do you have a swing? Or what I did during the day I raised the back of the pram a little bit so that he would not be laying flat..

When he was 4 weeks old I started giving him baby fennel tea, you can also buy regular fennel tea just don't make it to strong and add a little bit of sugar. He wasn't then to much bloated and I noticed a difference..

[stripeymonster]

Have you tried putting him to sleep on his front? Obviously keep an eye on him but it really helped my dd who had colic until about 14 weeks.

[CSLewis]

There's a drop-in breastfeeding clinin in lewisham, at the Quaggy Centre, where there is an experienced lactation consultant - she helped my sister a lot recently, tho I can't remember her name.

We live near east dulwich/goose green, and I'd love to help - I have a 9 month old myself tho so not sure I'd actually be much use!

I can also recommend Daniel Stuttard, cranial/osteopath who practises from his home in New Cross (and Sloane Square). He specialises in pregnancy/infants, and helped me with a breech pregnancy, and helped my sister with a very screamy baby who sounds quite like yours. He usually aims for a maximum of 3 appointments. Google his name for contact details.

Good luck. This too shall pass...

[minipie]

Or you might be able to get your GP to refer to a NHS tongue tie clinic, eg there is a very busy one at kings, but often they will only refer if there is weight loss, and there can be a delay. easiest to see a private LC in your home if you can afford it.

[minipie]

I came on to say exactly what Frat has said just above. Do get checked for tongue tie, by a lactation consultant who is trained to check for it (HVs and GPs often don't know what to look for, and can rule it out incorrectly). i saw Geraldine Miskin who is great but she is Surrey/SW London based so not sure if she covers Dulwich but there is bound to be someone good who does. Ask your local NCT or La Leche branch for recommendations or ask on the Dulwich online forum (can't remember its name but know there is one!).

Or let's ask on here - any of you Dulwich posters know a good local lactation consultant?

DD was EXACTLY like your DS. Tongue tie led to difficult feeding and lots and lots of wind and tummy cramps, writhing and grumbling and soon waking just as you describe. Also sicky burps a la reflux (in fact we thought, wrongly, that she had reflux). This discomfort in turn led to tiny amounts of sleeping and hence terrible overtiredness, which is a vicious circle as the more overtired they are the harder it is to get them to sleep. You can often fix or reduce the overtiredness by taking him out in the buggy or sling for a lot of long fast walks - the motion usually helps overtired babies sleep. But that won't be much help if there is an underlying issue like tongue tie which hasn't been fixed.

Silent reflux is also worth keeping on your radar but personally I'd check out tongue tie first as it's a lot easier to fix...!

[FraterculaArctica]

My baby was very like yours sounds with many of the same symptoms. Have you had him checked for tongue tie? Please please get thisdone asap by a lactation consultant or tongue tie specialist - do NOT rely on the opinion of GP, HV or midwife. Our DS had a posterior tongue tie diagnosed at 6 weeks and we had it cut a week later and much of his screaming stopped within 2-3 days.

[Elguapo]

Apparently I spoke too soon re: my earlier post that we had turned a corner and things were moving forward. We had a couple of very tolerable nights but we seemed to slide backwards a bit and DS is crying day and night if he's not sleeping or eating. The exhaustion we are experiencing is epic and we are sometimes just barely holding it together.

The only difference between the last time and now is that DS's cries are slightly less intense and high pitched. We can usually get him to quiet down using the 5 S's but getting him to sleep and stay asleep is a whole other ballgame. When we put him down to sleep, it will initially look like all is going well until he wakes up in what I can only describe as obvious discomfort.

I've been watching him while he sleeps and he is frequently writhing around, contracting and extending his body and grumbling eyes closed, but with a very unhappy face that always leads to him waking up. I ended up having to sleep partially sitting up with DS in a sling. It was the only way he would stay asleep.

We cannot wait for all of this to change, our mental resources are being stretched to the absolute limits. We need to have some positive interaction with our little man sooner than later. I'm no spring chicken and I've been through lots of difficult times that I have weathered and come out the other end in tact, however this is way way harder than either of us could have ever imagined. I can't wait to add this to the list of accomplishments.

[Elguapo]

@ wehereisthewitch: He does a lot of thos things, back arching, stiff as a board, endless hiccups. He also seems to frequently come off the breast during feeding coughing and gaging. We are taking him to register with a new GP that was recommended to us re: possible reflux, so fingers crossed something comes out if this.

[BigWLittleJ]

My first was like this, he was diagnosed at 6 weeks with severe silent reflux and CMPI. He was put onto meds and at 12 weeks had calmed considerably.

My second (currently 15 weeks) was also like that (screamed non stop for hour after hour every evening), the only difference being that he has no silent reflux and no cmpi. He too calmed considerably by 12 weeks and is now happy most of the time.

Honestly, I think that some babies just cry. I think I make screamers, but please be reassured that IT DOES PASS. Hang in there.

[whycantifindaname]

Only one of my DCs was like this. He had reflux.

[VivaLeBeaver]

I'm glad he's better. Fingers crossed it continues and if he does relapse at least having that letter from a Dr saying he could have reflux and it should be investigated is a good thing to have. Get some sleep.

[Elguapo]

Well, it all became a bit too much last night, non stop high pitched crying and screaming, his little body was stiff as a board and our nerves were shot. So we decided to take him to the A&E and forgo the GP appointment scheduled for today. We got there for midnight and waited the standard millennium, but we figured we would either be sleepless at home or sleepless at the hospital so it didn't really matter and we might get some answers at the hospital. The Paediatrician looked him over and decided that doing some blood tests to rule out any infection would be a good idea, we reluctantly agreed and waited for the results. While we were waiting our little guy proceeded to let out a Vesuvius like belch and spit up event that not only covered half of my wife but the entirety of himself as well. The collective relief the three of us felt after that must have reverberated around the planet (Did you feel it?)! He must have had all of that stuck inside his little belly for days, needless to say he is a completely different baby and is back to chilling out listening to afrobeat records with his ageing hipster parents.

Thankfully the GP discharge summary specifically stated that reflux is a definite possibility should his symptoms continue and should be dully investigated. So I'd say that was a win towards a possible diagnosis should we go through all of this again, God forbid.

I am really amazed and impressed with the outpouring of support that came flowing back at us from all of you on this here forum. In all seriousness all of your input, experiences and advice were an invaluable help, if not in directly solving the issue, but by bringing us back down to earth and realising we are all in this together. So thank you.