Are most people disciplining their children with the time out/naughty step strategy?

[sebsmummy1]

I'm not quite there yet as my son is only 16 months.

At the moment I have instinctively disciplined. He will get a firm No! or similar if he I'd doing something naughty or inappropriate. I have backed this up with a hand slap on about four occasions when I thought the action was bordering on dangerous and he wasn't taking notice of my words (not sure if I will get flamed for this).

As I said, it's very instinctive and generally this has worked very well. He no longer plays with the toilet and tries to lift the lid and post things and he understands the road is dangerous etc.

Thing is I know I am moving towards the terrible toes and I'm thinking whether I need to decide about how I'm going to handle bad behaviour in the future or if in going to carry on as I am.

Is the time out/ naughty step accepted as the accepted way to do things or is everyone doing something different depending on the child.

I really don't want smacking to become normal in our house and need a strategy that my son will understan, action/consequences etc.

Thanks

[TheScience]

We have "the step" as our ultimate sanction Mostly talking, counting to three etc works but it is useful to have a final consequence sometimes.

[TheScience]

Must admit I do have a naturally compliant DS though so haven't had to do much in the way of discipline yet. He was definitely never wild enough that I felt slapping was necessary.

[mummytime]

HopelessDei a good sticker chart should be more about the parents than the child. A Paediatric nurse I know suggests setting yourself of having the target of giving the child 10 stickers a day, so you have to hunt for an acknowledge any good behaviour. But then maybe they are often used in homes where the parents realise that things aren't working well, and are trying to change behaviour (of themselves or their children).

Admittedly my children have also had them just to check that people were doing their chores (if you have 3 or more children keeping track is often tricky).

BTW be very wary of getting smug. Of my 3 children the one who was a dream as a toddler/pre-schooler; is by far and away my trickiest child at 10.

[woodrunner]

I loathe the naughty step. Stupid idea. Smacking is no good either.

Love the glitter bottle idea. We did something similar. Had a cosy chair with blankets, cushions, cuddly toys and books. When DC were naughty they got snuggled up in the chair and told to come out when they felt better enough to play nicely.

It's a brilliant win-win device, like the glitter bottle, in that it teaches them self-reliance in how to calm themselves down, it teaches them that it's not 'bad' to have strong emotions, but it is important to have control over them (your own control, not control imposed by some massive cross grown up), and it doesn't leave the parent feeling guilty or with a power struggle on their hands.

it works very well, especially with strong-willed children. They don't want to stay angry but can't bear to lose face in a battle of wills. take away the battle and the desired end result - a calm child - is reached far faster.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Sillylass to clarify, timeout has those associations to me, they don't have to mean that to others.

I've always had a concern that when people do timeout out of anger (aka some of the intervention with kids programmes), it seems very much a punishment versus a space to think and calm down. So I think it needs to be done carefully. It worries me and therefore I don't want anyone to do it to my child - in that angry punishing way that seems rather too frequently appearing.

That's why I really like the idea of those glitter bottles!

I personally find the whole thing triggering due to a childhood where I was ostracized unless I behaved perfectly at all times to ever changing rules - love was very much conditional and I was notified any attention until I 'deserved it'.

[Bumpsadaisie]

All children are different so in a way it doesn't matter much what others do, you need to find what works for your son.

I would not expect a child to be able to be "obedient" to verbal instructions until 2 or 2.5. With my two, at your sons age, I would have said "no" firmly then removed and distracted.

At some point your son will be old enough that distracting/removal won't work any more. With my son it was roundabout 2 - I noticed he would intentionally do "naughty" things and just giggle when told off. At that point I would take him to sit in his room or on the stairs alone for a couple of minutes. This was effective and now he is pretty obedient to verbal instructions, sometimes backed up by my pointing out that he will have to go and sit on the stairs if he continues.

Personally I wouldn't use smacking. I have smacked each of mine once but I don't think its very effective. My eldest is 4 now and very well behaved in fact I don't ever have to think about discipline with her as she is never naughty. The worst that happens is the normal four year old vagueness meaning she gets distracted out of getting dressed in the mornings which annoys me. But for that I have given her a sticker chart so that every time she tries hard to focus and get dressed in the morning she gets a sticker. Works well. Other than that there aren't really any issues with her.

[UserNameDenied]

I time outed before it was called timeout. My DC are adults now. Time out is a very natural and effective way of disciplining kids and it worked well in our family. My kids sometimes used to timeout themselves which used to r make me laugh. I think they weighed up the desire to punch their sibling (or whatever) against a prolonged timeout and, just occasionally, the desire to punch their sibling was too strong.
They were usually well behaved kids though. I still did a bit of yelling too no ones perfect I was really good at being consistent at carrying out punishments. My main punishment was no computer for a day and then no computer for a week. I never had to ban them for a week as they KNEW I would carry through with it.
It helps if the kids have something they are passionate about.

The other thing I did that seems contrary to current trends is that I would be more lenient if they were good but if they were being naughty I would pick them up for everything. Whereas I think a lot of people think you should ignore the little stuff, in my eyes they had to earn their slack.
Mine were polite and were never once in trouble at school. Some were a bit gobby as teens like I said, no ones perfect but generally lovely.

That was long

[UserNameDenied]

Forgot to mention that I praised my kids a LOT and discussed behaviour with them a lot. I used to bore them into submission I also tried to think ahead and remind them about good behaviour before events happened. For example, I might give a little lecture about behaviour before we went into a supermarket. I'd ask them how do they think they should behave etc etc.

[HaroldLloyd]

Naughty step for golden for being so outrageously judgey.

OP this can be a tough age but like a previous poster said they are not all that terrible, a few friends have had wonderfully placid toddlers.

My toddler has been an absolute nightmare, he's had all the phases including an awful biting stage.

They are all different, he's only now at nearly three able to listen at all to any reasoning or explanation. In the situation golden described I would have simply had to take him straight home for hitting in the park, as this was a trigger of being in a situation that was a bit overwhelming maybe he was tired etc. but I have used a time out, more so sat him in bed with his books until he feels able to come and join in again.

At this age pretty much removal and distraction was the only thing that I could do.

Something like the glitter bottle sounds great though DS is the type of toddler to work out how to open it and drink it/smear it all over the cosy corner.

[BarbaraPalmer]

we use timeout - it works fine
the DC don't have to be in time out for a certain period, just long enough for them to stop whatever it was they were doing, and calm a little. It's not a punishment, just removal from a dangerous or high stimulous setting into one where they can gather themselves a bit. I find it works particularly well for sibling issues (poking, hitting, teasing, snatching), where I do not think it's fair on the other child simply to keep issuing calm instructions until the child decides to comply.

It's also timeout for me to count to ten, stamp my feet, and mutter some choice swear words out of earshot, before returning as the picture of composed motherhood.

I LOVE the glitterbottle idea though as and aid to calming and focusing - I think we'll make some this week.

[glenthebattleostrich]

I think for small children a time on works well, remove them from the cause of tantrum and sit them on your knee for a few minutes.

I do use time out as and think it can work well, but it is part of my arsenal, so to speak.

Reality bites, I am stealing the glitter bottle!

[glenthebattleostrich]

Sorry, reality gone!

[Cotherstone]

DD is 2.2. and we're just starting to use the time-out/naughty step method, but only sometimes. Other times I find talking to her with a stern face and a stern tone is enough.

I do think it works but it depends on your child's personality. Some will understand it, some won't. I think the calming down side of it can help, if they are being naughty because they are hyped up then getting them to sit down for a minute or two can make a big difference. And also if it's a time-out from something fun because they have done something very naughty like hitting or biting.

What I'm finding is working for us at the moment is that we end the naughty step with a chat about what she did, and she will repeat it back to us and say sorry for doing X, and I can see that most of the time she is listening to us and basically understanding what has happened, and I like that.

[BertieBotts]

Ah Harold, that's why you superglue the lid shut

OP it helps to think less about "tantrums and defiance" and more about what kind of morals you want your DC to have when they're adults. Obedience is for dogs, not for small humans who will one day be big humans.

Tantrums especially the under-3 kind aren't about being naughty, they are just really overwhelming feelings that the child doesn't know how to express or control yet. Your job is to minimise damage and prevent them hurting themselves or others, and when they've calmed down (or in advance if you're quick enough to spot the signs and lucky to have a child who doesn't go from 0-60 decibels in about 3 seconds) then it's important to help them control and express their feelings in a less explosive way. This is a long process, you can't avoid tantrums completely, the best thing you can do is try and have empathy for them.

If you can imagine being 18 months or two years old, your worldview is pretty limited and most things are still new and interesting to you. If you picked up something interesting and were looking at it to see what it is and what you can do to/with it, maybe tasting it or squashing it to see what happens. Suddenly a grown up comes over, shouts something and takes it away from you. You'd likely feel shock, a little bit of fear, anger that they've taken it off you when it was yours, sad that it's gone and you can't play with it any more. You don't know if they're going to give it back (and you have to assume not since sometimes you don't get stuff back) and your only way to communicate wanting something back is to point and say "Want that" or something else vague and blunt. It's not like you can form a reasoned argument for wanting it or enter into a discussion. Plus you're rather emotionally immature and unstable anyway, so something that hits off this many buttons at once is likely to provoke a big reaction, tears, screaming, whining, even physical expression like stamping or lying on the floor.

Obviously that doesn't mean that if you see your toddler picking up something dangerous or potentially harmful or a live animal or something that you shouldn't take it off them, but you can be sympathetic as you do so, you can understand that it's quite a big deal to have something taken away, you can try in the first instance asking for them to give it to you calmly rather than panicking and grabbing it off them (which often makes it more desirable anyway). You can show them the dangerous part in a safe way, e.g. by demonstrating that touching the sharp part of a knife is "ouch!" And most tantrums are similar - they don't understand the reason behind something and they're too little to have it explained, the situation is too intense for them to cope with, they are feeling too many things at once. Tiredness and hunger can contribute too. And they haven't developed the skill of perspective yet. A splinter is as bad as breaking a bone. The biscuit being broken is as important as your favourite toy being beyond repair. Losing a balloon is like losing your best friend in the whole world. They just can't differentiate between something being a little bit annoying and something being the end of the world.

Defiance is all linked up with obedience and it's better to think not "He should do as he's told!" but "Why do I want him to do X" - maybe you want him to pick up his toys because you want him to be a tidy person and not leave mess for everyone else. Maybe you want him to apologise for something to help him learn emotional responsibility and kindness, maybe you need him to obey instructions for safety reasons. Whichever it is, there's always a different way of handling it and a different way of looking at the refusal. For example, for safety issues there is no leeway and you either decide that he's too young to do that activity reliably/safely or put measures in place so that it is safe (pushchair/reins near roads, for example). At a certain age they are able to understand a pre-warning that this activity is dangerous and they need to listen straight away or they will be stopped from doing it. For other things, like the apology you can keep modelling it and showing him it's the right thing to do, he won't get it straight away and it might take longer for the message to appear "accepted", but when it is accepted in this way, it's more likely to be true to what you actually want rather than him learning it's a meaningless thing to say when you want to get out of trouble. With tidiness, again, model, involve him in general tidying stuff, make sure he sees you and DH cleaning up and doing their bit and not just you running around after everyone, make it an everyday thing to clean up after yourself and he will eventually find it second nature - but he still probably won't want to tidy up his own toys when presented with that as an instruction, perhaps because it feels overwhelming or he doesn't want to do it alone or he doesn't want to stop what he's doing now to do that - warning in advance can help and also helping him yourself. Although again this is one of the long games, where you are unlikely to see results earlier on but long term if he encompasses cleaning and tidying into "just what you do" he'll develop more of a clean and tidy personality and do it off his own back, rather than doing it because he's being nagged but not really seeing the point of it.

Sorry that was long I hope some of it is helpful.

[TheGreatHunt]

Those of you who say timeout works, in what sense does it work? Does it prevent the same situation from reoccurring or in that instant it stops their behaviour but it happens again?

[TheScience]

I find the threat of it instantly stops the behaviour. If you find any method/sanction that prevents bad behaviour ever reoccuring though you should write a book

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

I never punish- or reward behaviour.

[Goldmandra]

I never punish- or reward behaviour.

Please tell us more

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

Not sure what you want to know- ask away.

[Cotherstone]

It works sometimes because we don't often get a repetition of the behaviour - if it's quite minor naughty behaviour it seems to work.

But it doesn't always. When DD has done something I feel is very bad - biting or hitting another child, for example - then she is immediately removed. It hasn't entirely stopped her doing it yet when she is frustrated, but what else can you do?

I don't think it's ever going to be a quick fix and especially not with the tricky 2y age, but you've got to pick your line and stick to it, which for me is time out/naughty step even if it's not immediately 'fixing' her behaviour.

I like some of the suggestions above re glitter tubes and the like, but at the moment I wary of 'rewarding' a behaviour with a shiny toy, which I think my DD would think at the moment. But definitely an idea to remember for the future.

[Goldenbear]

Well yes Harold I do tend to 'judge' someone who slaps a baby. If I saw this in public I would think there was a huge mismatch in strength and essentially, it was 'domestic violence'.

TheGreatHunt, I didn't ask my DS to sort out the problem with the Toddler at the park- DS was walking past them bith in the steps, he was a bit ahead and turned to look when he heard his sister cry, he told her to come with him but DD wouldn't go past this girl as she was scared. DS is very protective of his little sister and naturally has a paternal approach to her rather than competitive as she is 4 years younger. He is nearly 7 and naturally thinks for himself, your assuming I instructed him to intervene and that isn't the case. I was quite far away and then walked over to DS, DD and the toddler on the steps because the Mother seemed incapable of intervening. When the toddler went to push her again I guided and circumvented DD around the toddler and this is is when I asked DS to take her up the steps. This is when the mother told DD to hit her back if her toddler did it again. I said, 'no, don't do that.'

I'm in no way 'smug' as DD is quite hotheaded like all of us but I refuse to use the naughty step. She is also a bolter and will scoot off very quickly from me and she was/is not great at stopping when asked. We've worked on this over the year and she is pretty good at stopping when asked now- presumably because she is older. Despite this frequent scenario I never used the naughty step, spot whatever! It has not been plain sailing by any means and is absolutely nothing to do with me being 'lucky' to have a compliant child, she is head strong and fiercely independent but I have worked hard at encouraging a placidity with regards to sharing and listening to me a bit more.

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

sillylass- I'm not sure I would agree with your definition of punishment and reward. I communicate with my OH, but I don't see that as punishing or rewarding his actions. Same with my children.

[UserNameDenied]

I think timeouts worked for us because it made my kids think about their behaviour, it helped them reflect on their mistakes and gave everyone a calming down period. My kids were naturally calm and thoughtful but I still think timeouts helped a lot. I had my four kids very close in age so it could get a bit rowdy and I wanted to avoid being a shouty household.
Timeouts were especially good where there was an aggrieved sibling.
I liked the calm way that I could 'administer' timeouts.

[hollyisalovelyname]

How do you keep them sitting on the step?
Mine jumped up and ran away through the house.