3 yr old sleeps with my husband and my mum but not with me (mum)

[Shaluk]

I have not posted on mumsnet before....but am going out of my mind with sleep deprivation. My son is 3 yrs and 3 mths old - he is controlling me at night wanting me to stay with him until he falls asleep (I either sit on the floor or on the chair next to his bed) and then will wake 3-4 times a night, obviously checking if I am still there. I have tried everything under the sun (night light is on...., stickers, thomas books, chocolates etc) but nothing works. A typical night would be he falls asleep at 7.45pm, then wakes at 12am, 4am, 5am and then 6am when he is awake for the day. So here is my frustration - when my husband or my mum puts him to sleep, they tuck him in and walk out of the room and he goes to sleep on his own - waking up only once in the night and then at 6.30am or 7am!!! So he knows I am too soft!!! I have an 8 yrs old who is special needs and also a 5 year old - if I let 3 yr old cry it out the other two will wake and the last time I tried this it lasted for 2 hours and everyone woke up!! It is a living nightmare. Some nights I go to his room at 4am and he won't fall asleep and I sit there freezing and praying it won't take ages....but then as I creep out he starts to cry again....
please please, can anyone help?
Thank you.

[mysweetie]

Have you tried putting a picture of you or your family beside him? or putting some nursery rhymes while he sleep? a teddy or anything to be beside him might also help.

[PopMusic]

Oh I really feel for you and your DS, Shaluk. I don't have problems with night wakings but then I co-sleep with my DS (4) but until recently, I had to stay with him - lie next to him until he went to sleep while he pulled played with my hair!

To get him to self settle, I made sure to keep the routine exactly the same for a week beforehand and keep it the same from then on, absolutely no deviation at all, not even a minor one. I started the routine a little earlier so he was not over-tired. He is scared about monsters (is yours? - I know it's a developmental thing) so I always say that mummy does not let monsters/ghosts/witches in the house because I have super powers and I also left a table lamp on in the room because he is scared of the dark (it took him a bit longer to go to sleep in the light at first but now it does not seem to make a difference). Once stories have been read, and I kissed him goodnight, told him I had jobs to do and I would check on him in five minutes and leave pretty sharpish. I did not have crying but I did have calling out for me, which I responded to straight away. I was very matter a fact - "I said I would come back, mummy still has to finish her job, I will see you in five minutes". If he was quiet, I just left it a bit longer before I went back. Sometimes, he called me to ask me questions and have a chat and I would let him say what he wanted to say and I would say something along the line of "it's sleep time and we will talk about it tomorrow, you need to sleep now". He still occasionally calls to me for an emergency cuddle which I am more than happy to oblige.

So, yes, carry on leaving the room but I think the key thing is consistency and being very matter a fact about it. So, if he is crying hysterically, a quick cuddle and now it's time to sleep and a swift exit. Personally, I would not let him cry so that it got to the hysterical stage because its much harder to settle them. Children at this age have no concept of time so if you came back in sooner when he is crying, you can still pretend its been five minutes. It might take a few more days but for me that is worth it for a calmer child.

[Shaluk]

Lonesomebiscuit thank you for you message, you have been through it all too and it sounds so familiar. Please could you tell me how you managed to get to the hall as I've only managed to get as far as the floor - sitting next to the bed. It was a disaster because DS kept checking if I was still there whilst he was trying to go to sleep. Did you keep reassuring with your voice? Tonight I said "I am coming back in 5 minutes, I am going to turn the heating off" and DS just cried hysterically until I came back. I then went in, reassured him and then said it again, this time saying I was going to the toilet. Again hysterical. I then sat at the bottom of the bed with my hand placed on him and he slept within 2 minutes. I think the withdrawal process is the answer, he can't switch off and is waking to see if I am still there, he is also over tired of course.

[jellyrolly]

I don't think it helps anyone for you to listen to your child crying for you for hours, you don't have to put either of you through that. For me it was more finding the conviction in my voice and also choosing what you are saying, so to go from being there when he cries to saying you are not coming in will be very distressing for both of you, but you can do some of what lonesomebiscuit says. You can say "I am coming back in 10 minutes" or "I will come back in when I have cleared up in the kitchen" etc. and stick to that.

Lonesomebiscuit, you reminded me of when I tried the disappearing chair, I was heard to ask 'where does this f&%$ing chair end up? The corner shop?' Not everything works for everyone!

[lonesomeBiscuit]

I feel really sorry for you. Have been there, done that many times with my 2.3 year old. Including him only self-settling for others, not me; the sheer panic when he wakes and I'm not there; and me sitting in his room cold in the middle of the night hoping this time please can he go back to sleep quickly, and the 4/5/6am waking which makes it impossible to get more sleep.

Currently going through a better phase. It got really bad for a long period after Christmas, when he was ill (turned out he had an ear infection, I reckon he'd had it a good few weeks before we realised how bad it was). Could your son have picked up a bug from nursery that is making him look to you for comfort in the night? Somehow comfort is a mum thing. Also if they are feeling rotten one can be a bit more understanding about it (though it doesn't help the physical exhaustion). With mine I could tell the panic/upset were genuine, not try-ons.

What worked for us

• patience and reassurance (in my view, where they are genuinely panicked you have to reassure till they feel comfortable, crying it out only makes things worse)
  

• on a couple of the really bad nights, dragging the sofa cushions in during the middle of the night to make bed on the floor, then leaving the light on low in the hall so he could see I was there while he tossed and turned unable to go back to sleep.
  

• working on bedtime first and in the middle of the night just doing whatever was necessary (patting, singing). I find once bedtime is cracked with self-settling, that panic on waking where they are looking for mummy also subsides
  

• I spent ages getting nowhere with bedtime, I wasn't consistent enough and creeping out / leaving and going back didn't help, as it just made him constantly anxious and watchful for when I was going to leave (I like the idea of a consistent "back in 5" though and will try that in the next awful period). What worked in the end was gradual withdrawal, it took about 10 days till I was sitting in the hall but in view. Then I opted for "mummy is just going to tidy up" and going from hall into other rooms, clattering a bit.
  

I find these things go through good phases and bad phases, it is nothing to do with you not being strong enough, just they have a different emotional attachment to mummy and it probably is a reaction to the change or illness.

HTH

[Shaluk]

Thank you for your message jellyrolly and I know you are completely right but when I let him cry it lasted two hours and he still wasn't asleep. My other DC did not hear him. How can I do it again and how long can I allow him to cry for?? He is so stubborn and determined...

[jellyrolly]

I remember being told that children wake up when they hear things they think they need to respond to, i.e. another baby crying in the same room won't necessarily wake them fully but a parent's voice might. Is it possible that your other dc hear you when your son is crying for you, do you answer him? I hope that makes sense. It might be worth you staying very quiet and letting him cry it out and complain.

Perhaps because your DH and mum don't give any other options than just 'go to sleep' he is less anxious when they put him to bed. Even though you are doing your best and your instinct is to settle him down and protect your other children's sleep, you are giving him the option that you may or may not be there when he wakes up so it might be time to put your foot down. It's so hard, mine were dreadful at that age and it really does drive you insane, good luck x

[Shaluk]

He's always been a bad sleeper but now at it's worst.
I think all those things you've said are true - he's insecure, he has more
exercise over half term. But I left him with my mum for
2 nights and he only got up once and then woke at 7am!
I have spoken to nursery and we've agreed he may need one day a week
home with me. It's just speculation isn't it?

[BreadForMyBREADGUN]

Sorry if I've missed this further upthread, but has he always done this or has it got worse since stating nursery? I wonder (and please don't take this the wrong way) if he's just feeling insecure and does this at night because he knows he'll get your attention that way. Was there anything else different about half term that might have helped him sleep better at night - more time with you, or more exercise?

HTH

[Shaluk]

Thank you again for your support. Princessx - my DS will not sleep in my bed, after 15 mins he asks me to put him back into his bed which he must prefer! SneezySnatcher, I too bought that book and made a book with my DS but didn't work. I also gave him my t-shirt to sleep with but after the first night he did not want it in his bed anymore!
I had the worst night last night, it seems to get worse when DS goes to nursery, over half term he didn't wake up as many times, last night it was 5 times! I feel like I have an illness, continuous sleep deprivation is like being sick all the time. DS goes to nursery 5 mornings a week, maybe it's too much and he can't switch off at night.
Anyway thanks again.....

[SneezySnatcher]

I pinched an idea from the 'no cry sleep solution' for DD (3 next month).

We drew our routine out on paper to make a timetable. So I drew bath, PJs, gro-clock, toothbrush, potty, stories, bed. We follow this religiously every night (whoever puts her to bed). We ask her to tell us the next step every time. This has worked like magic for us.

[princessx]

This isn't a long term solution at all but could you either go to bed with him in your bed and just stay there and fall asleep with him? Benefit for you is an early night. Although you would have to pre plan so you had everything organised before you went to bed.

Or you could follow normal bedtime routine and put in his own bed, but when he wakes up, let him come into your bed and stay there all night.

I know the risk is you will set a precedent, and a normal bedtime routine keeps kids happy and settled, rather than not knowing what the rules are . It's just if he is so desperate for your company/ presence it could be worth a try giving it to him.

Not sure if that helps, just a thought. I am co sleeping at mo and all going well. The difficulty will prob come when I decide to stop.

[exoticfruits]

I kept it very boring if they woke at night- I didn't switch any lights on and spoke in whispers- patted them on the head and said 'shhh night time - everyone's asleep - night- night' and crept out- it seemed enough.

[Antidote]

I would suggest that you start doing exactly what your DH & mum do at bed time. Shadow them for a couple of goes at the weekend, then replicate what they do. Tell DS that mummy & daddy will be doing bedtime the same way from now on.

Clearly he is capable of self settling, and as you say is treating you differently because it gets a different reaction.

We had something similar with DS (age 2) where I was very routined about bed & DH let him basically do what he wanted till he fell asleep (and then wondered why it took me 15mins and no screaming and took him 2hours with a massive tantrum). We decided that my way was "better" and he copied me for one night, then I supported him while he took the lead for a night, and now we basically have a routine that is the same for both of us.

Good luck.

[sparkleshine]

I can see how frustrating this must be for you. My 3 yr old DS has similar habits. He manages to sleep through the night at his dads and both grandparents but at home he somehow wakes and comes into my bed. Most of the time I don't know until morning which isn't too bad and it's just me. He also takes longer to settle at home, wants to go to bed later etc. think it's cause he ( and maybe you) know us mummy's are a soft touch.

[Iggly]

Do the same for night wakings. But it might e that because you are there when he sleeps, he doesn't realise you've gone hence waking up wanton you.
Does he have any cuddle toys? Might be worth getting some - ds (3.4) has all of a sudden taken a shine and has loads in his bed for comfort!

[Shaluk]

That's a good idea, I will try it tonight - thank you.

[Goldmandra]

Have you tried giving him a t-shirt or other top of yours which you have worn to sleep in? It will smell of you and might just be enough to help him feel settled. I am a childminder and this works well for settling babies in my care.

[Shaluk]

Thank you all so much for your messages. Firstly I have tried putting DS in my bed but he still won't sleep, after 15 mins he asks to go back to his own bed. Once he did fall asleep but still woke up after a while, it's like he can't switch off at night and is obsessed with my presence. He has a night light on all night and loads of teddies around him to make him feel safe. He also has a story on his own with just me before he sleeps and one to one time when older ones are at school.
DH won't wake during the night, he has v stressful job and is in spare room as needs to function. I am willing to try the 5 minute returning method at bed time or DH can put DS to sleep but my issue is what do I do when he wakes up 4 times during the night? He just cries but as soon as I put my hand on him or sit on his bed he stops. I know this is just a phase, maybe I just need to ride it out....I just feel so bad for my older two kids as I'm always shouting and lacking in enthusiasm / energy.

[Iggly]

What about trying to go back in after 5 mins. Leave then back in five minutes instead of leaving him to sleep alone? So he learns that you will be back but he sleeps alone? Be confident in dealing with him, tuck him in and say goodnight, that you're going out of the room and will be outside but he has to stay in bed. Tell him firmly you'll be back in five minutes". Leave, wait outside for 5 mins then go back in, tuck in bed - do not engage in conversation - anything he says just say "night night DS time to sleep, I'm going outside and will be back in 5 minutes", then go and back in after 5 mins. main thing is to tell him you'll be back. Keep going until he gets the idea. Might take a while but at leat you're not sat there stewing.
Also can you give him a dim night light?

Finally does he get enough special attention from you? A bedtime story and cuddle with just you, 10-15 mins of play in the day with just you but led by him?

[exoticfruits]

I think that I would explain to the 3yr old that you are tired and you are not sitting with him. If he cries I would tell him that he will have to go to bed earlier so that his crying doesn't keep the others awake. Just let him cry, keep going back and saying in a calm way, 'night, night, sleep time'. Once DH gets home he can take over and you can get the others to bed. DH gets up if he cries in the night. You could try letting him look at books before the light goes off. I can't see that co sleeping is any help because you don't want to go to bed with him.
Tell DH that you want to be stronger but the pattern is now so entrenched you need his help to change it.

[FannyBazaar]

Would everyone get a better rest i he just came into your bed when he wakes? Would he/could he do that?

[BreadForMyBREADGUN]

I think this is the age that I gave up with the bribery and the begging and started shouting.

Sorry, that's not massively helpful

[BlackSwan]

My 3 year old has just started demanding I stay for longer and longer until he goes to sleep and then gets into our bed around 11 anyway! I have given up, as the alternative is waking up to settle him constantly. It's like having a baby again. Feel your pain.

[Goldmandra]

How does you being stronger stop him waking up his siblings?