Honest to the point of rude

[Whatisitthistime]

Any tips on how I can deal with my ds.

If he doesn't like someone (for example a classmate) he will avoid them, if asked by an adult (teacher/classroom assistant/parent etc) why he won't play with x.

He will respond with 'I don't like them because of ...'

The because of can be 'they are immature, they bore me, they smell or whatever reason'.

This has got him into trouble, and has caused other parents to take offence. He doesn't mean to cause offence, he doesn't say it unless directly asked the question.

His responses are fact.

If it's they are immature they do act younger than their age, if they bore him they bore him, if they smell they do smell.

How can I help him, what is an acceptable response? Is there an acceptable response?

[Whatisitthistime]

Thank you for the advice and support thisisyesterday.

Thanks for the confirmation he's not a bad lad chippingin, just got to iron out a few of the creases.

[thisisyesterday]

btw OP I think you've had some really harsh replies on this thread and you've taken it really well (imo!)
it's nothing that you have done wrong I don't think. some children are very literal, and some take a while longer than others to learn what is and isn't socially acceptable.

your son has been told not to lie, so he has told the truth.
other children of his age may already have realised that being that honest could have repercussions... but many haven't, especially if they've never been put in that situation before.

you should stress to him that he is still being honest by saying he doesn't want to play with whoever, or talk to them... he just doesn't have to give explicit reasoning. it isn't lying to keep some info back

[thisisyesterday]

if pushed he could also use things like "i don't really get on with him/her" or somethjing like that.

[Whatisitthistime]

Just to clarify if he had ever just come out and said to another person 'You are boring me'. He would have been in trouble and would know it, therefore he does not say this, and as I am as aware never has.

When he has walked off due to being bored, he has probably thought to himself 'you are boring me', but has never said it, and has just removed himself from the situation.

When he has been challenged as to why he is removing himself - 'why aren't you playing with x?' He and I now understand that the response is 'i would prefer to play by myself now thank you'. His response up until this morning would have been 'because x is boring me'.

We have both learnt a great deal from this post, so despite the criticisms for posting, I still feel that it was very worthwhile me asking for the advice.

[Whatisitthistime]

I was looking for advice yesterday on how to deal with it, I was given that advice last night by posters, I spoke to him this morning using the advice given.

And posted an update post to say, thanks for advice, he now knows what he is to respond, I pointed out that he was upset for thinking he was doing the right thing and discovering it was the wrong thing, and I was saying in todays post, I find that a difficult thing to convey as so many different scenarios as to when you should be honest to a direct question, and when not.

He's not perfect and I am not perfect, but that is why I was looking for advice.

If I thought we were right then I would not want to be changing anything and not asking for advice.

And for whatever reason, he has missed out on this 'education' from nursery and I am now looking to educate him now.

He's not a completed work, and neither am I, and we are both continuing to improve.

[Playingwithbuses]

So you already sorted out the problem with him and are not looking for advise on how to deal with it. You know perfectly well what is not acceptable, you just feel bad for telling off and correcting you perfect alpha child.

It is yourself that needs to learn that pure honesty to the point of being rude is not always appropriate. I would tell off a 4 year old if they declared another child was smelly or boring.


IME kids are very versatile and understand and accept that they can't point out others failings and differences. Very young children of nursery age learn this and are capable of this. They also learn that the way the talk to different people and behave in different places has to vary too, what is acceptable in the playground isn't in the classroom and how you talk to granny is different from talking to your friends.

[Whatisitthistime]

But I have told him that what he has said is unacceptable, and that it upsets people, and makes them think badly of him.

I said that when people ask why he won't play with someone, he should not make it personal, he should keep it about him, that he wants to be on his own, or he doesn't want to play with anyone at the moment.

He understands now that's what he's got to say.

The point about the honesty was, that I have taught him, that when an adult asks him a question he always has to answer with the truth.

This has come about due to problems with his teenager sibling telling lies to cover up something to us, and we have got angry with her, not for what she has done but for the lies that she has told us. So whilst we have been telling her to answer all questions with the truth, he's been having that lecture as well (not directly but has heard us repeatedly telling her).

Now I am telling him not to answer the question honestly. Because there are some questions that aren't answered honestly. But to be able to do all scenarios of: if someone asks you this question you answer honestly, if someone asks you this question you answer with a politician's answer, is very difficult when a child is very black and white.

But like I say he now knows the answer to "why won't you play?"

[Whatisitthistime]

He already goes to beavers. He's in a football and rugby squad. He interacts as a team player, and regularly gets POM awards.

But he will not socialise with these people, and this is where I need to work with him.

He doesn't leave other kids out, he is the one who removes himself.

It's the response to the question that we needed to work on, and that is covered as he is now going to say 'I would like to be on my own', knowing him he will probably add on the end 'because I'm an antisocial sod'.

[Hullygully]

Sorry, it was meant to be brief, not harsh!

Just tell him the truth:

In order for a large number of people to live tightly packed together on a small island, we need to behave in ways that aren't going to upset each other. Kindness, tact and sensitivity oil the wheels of social intercourse and make this possible. Honesty, in and of itself, is not always a virtue.

[Playingwithbuses]

Sorry down to the practical advice, you just need to tell him "thats a bit rude and will upset people darling", he needs to be told not to say personal things about people,

but if you are not prepared to tell him off for being "honest" what other advice can we give you???

[Playingwithbuses]

Its not about lying FGS its about not being rude and hurting peoples feelings.

There is a difference between being honest and being rude and it sounds like both of you need to learn that.

It is going to make things very difficult as he gets older, what about kids with special needs is he allowed to say I don't want to play with him because he sticks his tongue out to much, or because he is rubbish at games be cause he is in a wheelchair.

He needs to learn bloody quick that he is no better than anyone else in the playground, no he doesn't have to play with everyone but he can't say they smell ot there boring to them or parents or whoever, thats something he can whisper quietly to you.

Maybe he needs to learn to include other people in his games and not leave other kids out because he doesn't like the look of them that day. Perhaps joining a group like cubs or something where he will get the chance to play games and do activities with a wide range of kids, where no one is left out because of some silly reason, and leaders will tell him not to say rude things about the other kids.

[Whatisitthistime]

Tad harsh Hullygully but okay point taken it is something I have done.

I realise most errors/behaviour that is not acceptable in children is due to parenting.

Hence the reason for my posting asking for ways to change it.

At no point have I said that others should not be offended nor think that this behaviour is acceptable.

I do have empathy for my son, because I can see how his thinking has worked, wrongly but logically.

Part of me envies his ability my older child and I have the tendancy of being stuck with people we don't like as we are too nice to everyone and haven't learnt to extract ourselves, for too much fear of causing offence.

Now somehow, my youngest is too much the other way and does not realise that what they will say will cause offence.

Like I say I realise he can't go through life like this, but that is why I'm asking for advice on how to change the behaviour.

[Hullygully]

In fact your title says it all. He is "honest to the point of rude."

[Hullygully]

He behaves like this because you haven't taught him socially acceptable behaviour and indeed synpathise with him.

[ChippingIn]

Whatisitthistime (like your name by the way!) Honestly, I think you should leave him how he is. Don't teach him to lie. He isn't doing anything wrong - the adults are!! He is behaving politely, he's answering when asked, he's removing himself from situations... he sounds like he's behaving quite well for a 7 year old!

The only small thing I would tell him that it would be better to do would be to say to a child following him, that he doesn't want to play with, would be 'Sorry, I don't want to play with anyone'.

I agree with him - he is being told off for being honest & I don't think it's on simply because adults cannot accept he doesn't want to be everyones best mate.

[Whatisitthistime]

We spoke this morning about it.

He's going to say non personal non commital comments.

He did get very upset, and said he doesn't understand why he is being told off for being honest.

I explained that he was not being told off or punished for the truth, just that to ensure that he doesn't hurt others feelings with the truth.

Hopefully this is a problem solved, although I do fear that it may make him even less communicative than he already is, for fear that what he does say is wrong he won't talk at all.

[Whatisitthistime]

Thisisyesterday - "i don't really want to right now" that's it. See I couldn't see the wood for the trees, just being to hightend by it.

He's just got to stop trying to justify his reason, he should just state that he doesn't want to.

[thisisyesterday]

he doesn't have to lie.

i would just point out that saying that someone smells, or that they'r eboring or that they'r eimmature could be quite upsetting to them or to other people around them

it jsut isn't a nice thing to say.
it's fine for him to not like those people, but it's not fine to say things that might cause them to be upset just because you don't like them

so if he gets asked why he isn't talking to people or why he isn't playing with them he simply needs to say "I don't really want to right now"... which is true!
or, "I'd rather play by myself/with X" or whatever

he can be honest (and say he doesn't want to talk/play with them) without pointing out their faults iyswim?

[Whatisitthistime]

Just to reiterate I don't know what the correct answer is and that's what I'm asking advice for.

Table manners I know what the correct approach is.
Leaving toys out I can explain why not to, and the right course of action.

Lying I can't describe the correct time to lie and not to.

[Whatisitthistime]

That's really interesting about "special" - yes he's special to me as he's my son, but I don't think this behaviour is special I cringe with embarrassment when he says it, but I don't know how to deal with it.

Because if I say 'you can't say that', he says 'but it's true', if I remove him from the place he's being punished for honesty and says to me but what am I meant to say and I don't know what he is meant to say.

I wonder if he should be more abrupt with the child, because other children who don't want to play with another child will say 'leave me alone' 'go away' etc. Which to me always seems hurtful to say to the child, but does tend to result in the child either going on their own accord, or other parents saying 'come on x they don't want to play with you' and not taking offence at it.

My son tries to remove himself without confrontation, gets confronted by the adults, answers the question and is in the wrong.

I see he is in the wrong, like I say when the question is asked I am aware of an honest answer coming. Now if I was to jump in and say 'oh he's just wanting to be on his own', he would respond 'no i don't, i just don't want to because of ...'

[bibbitybobbityhat]

I've no idea! I just know a lot of lovely 7 year old boys who manage to be straightforward with each other (they are on the whole a fairly straightforward species ) without winding anyone else up, adults or children.

Lack of empathy with other people is deeply unappealing. Speak to him about it as you would about table manners, or skid marks, or leaving toys out in the garden all night - or anything else that is non-negotiable.

I get the impression from your op that you think he is somehow "special" - he is not, he is only special to you and other close family. Everyone else looks at him without prejudice.

[Whatisitthistime]

Any other ideas bibbitybobbityhat as to what he should be saying or do you agree with 'I just don't really feel like playing with anyone at the moment'.

The way he conducts himself in his actions I believe is appropriate. If someone's wanting to chat whilst he's working to nod but not engage is how I would want him to be. I would prefer him not to be chatting in class.

In the playground, whether he knows the child or not, I certainly don't expect him to spend his free time playing with someone if he doesn't want to.

But it's how he responds to the adults that is the problem.

[bibbitybobbityhat]

He has to learn to handle himself better. In time no one will adore him for behaving like this. I don't know if better social skills will develop naturally with time - 7 year old boys are hardly the most mature and I know this as I have one myself - but I don't think it would do any harm if you spoke to him about his idiosyncratic manner every time you witness it.

[Whatisitthistime]

I'll work on the words and then how to lose the dripping sarcasm .

Thank you for the advice.

[bigTillyMint]

He sounds quite a discerning chap!

I would have lots of chats with him about how we don't necessarily like everone we meet, but that it is rude / upsetting to them to show it, so we have to think of polite and kind things to say. Your 'But Miss I'm just getting on with my work' sounds good, and maybe even saying in a nice tone of voice to the peers, "I'm sorry but I'm trying to concentrate on my work...."

Maybe he could just say to parents in the playground something like "I just don't really feel like playing with anyone at the moment / I'd rather play on my own at the moment" Obviously tone of voice is crucial