SORRY!! But how do you teach your child to wipe their bum??

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

I need a guide someone!!

[des000]

OK. I'm not sure if this is too far off topic or not. But I live in the US, in the state of Washington. I am 31 years old. My original diagnosis was Aspergers, but then they changed it to PDD, and then they fixed every disagreement when the DSM-5 came out. It's called Autistic Disorder now, so we know I have autisim in some high functioning manor, but we don't really know which kind.

I am frustrated. I've still lived on my own just under 10 years. I want badly to get a full time job. This is unlike anybody who I know who otherwise has a similar disability to me. But I'm trying to fix all the problems at home causing me not to be able to work. 2 that stick out, are being able to correctly complete a daily routine, and wiping myself.

It is the wiping myself I wish to talk about here. I used to have many other troubles, like wiping the counters and washing dishes, but I seem to have mostly fixed it by "obsessing" on it. But I'm really stuck on wiping my butt. I don't want to spend EVERY waking moment on trying to do this, for 3 weeks, but I would if I had to. I'd take days off from my part time job and do that if I had to.

I can do it with paper towels (which I put in the garbage, not flush), but I can't do it with wet wipes or toilet paper! The thinner it is, the harder it is for me. I constantly try to avoid going #2 as long as I can, and end up having lots of accidents which doesn't help me because it's so unpleasant.

I would say I definitely have a sensory issue about getting poop on me, and probably anybody with near as sensitive nose as me, would have trouble breathing while doing it. I just avoid getting too close so I don't throw up.

Anyway, it's very frustrating that I can't seem to just "obsess" this problem away like I have been able to do with other problems so far. I don't want to try to have somebody with me 24 hours a day making rules for me, just over this issue, and I doubt they would ever let me get this service either. I have been able to prove I needed a caregiver for now anyway, becuause of my routines not working which causes all kinds of issues. But I have gone over it and over it with them. They don't seem to have any answers on how to improve. I did as much as I could with my counselor, but she has even less power over assisting with the issue. Can anyone give me advice? Writing can help too. My brain is better than what I can get my hands to do sometimes. Maybe some brainwork will help me "obsess" this problem away finally... Thanks in advance.

By the way, in other respects, I'm getting more and more like a normal person for my age. I've been able to finally conquer most social aspects in the same way. I can do lots of work for jobs, so that's not an issue.

I can only afford to do laundry once a week, pretty much no matter what. I have had to throw some pants away before, because I also couldn't clean them when they got too dirty, though I'm working on better cleaning techniques in those situations.

My Mom had to help buy me more clothes when my clothes got low, because I couldn't afford clothes. Pants here can cost over $50 one pair here. I'm in a rurual area and can't travel to where they are cheaper.

[rabbitstew]

Poor you and ds2. It's what I've always been scared of, even though ds1 isn't even quite 7, yet! It just seems like such a lot to teach them in such a short space of time.

We've also been working a lot in the bath on ds1 using the soap effectively to wash armpits, etc. And sometimes, I get him to try rubbing shampoo in his hair a little bit, and trying to rinse some of it off when he lies back in the bath - just so that he gets used to the idea that I won't always do this for him. He used to think any effort to get him to do anything for himself at all was a sign I was planning to run away and leave him all on his own forever, but he now seems to understand that I am planning to be there for him always, despite my desire to get him to learn to do things for himself! He's quite a good toothbrusher, now, too (he does morning brush, I do pm brush). And can help himself to breakfast cereal and pour his own milk. None of it achieved particularly easily, but all of it now more or less accepted! And with each little achievement, his willingness to try something new increases, so we are making much faster progress these days than we used to, and he is building on previously acquired skills. It's just the knowing what to try to get your child to try and when, when his natural desire is to be looked after for the rest of his life, so absolutely no pushing on his part to learn any self-help skills.

Keep working with your ds2 - you are obviously doing the right thing at a speed he can cope with.

[Solo2]

Thanks rabbitstew. DS2 is like this about things - either he believes he CAN do them - and thus has to, perfectly - or can't at all - and this won't try. It's difficult showing him that there are a lot of things he initially thought he couldn't do and then became able to do.

There are just so many component parts of going for a poo! Forgot about the flushing one aswell.

The school allowed him to use the staff/ parent toilet is he ever wanted to, from Yr 3 on but he's never ever used it at all as he's too embarassed to go there. In Yr 3, other boys used to crawl under the doors or over the doors or learned to unlock them from the outside and this was what really, really put off DS2, along with a terrible 'accident' oneday when he suddenly got a tummy bug.

We're still working on the wiping. As he also can't shower or bath unaided yet either and I don't always have time every single day to help, then I've avoided letting him do his own wiping for too long really but I must help him advance further now, even if it means daily showering/ bathing and maybe 2 pairs of pants per day too. I suppose I could get him to wear two pairs to reduce any 'issues' with skid marks/ smell.

As it won't be long before he reaches puberty, he really needs to learn these things fast before he's utterly embarssed even with me.

[rabbitstew]

Solo2, you sound like me with my ds1 (he actually has aspergers, we've just been told, after my fondly thinking he just had an awful lot of traits!). I used to hate going through the whole bottom-wiping thing with him and wondered why other parents appeared to think it was such a simple process that was well within the capabilities of any three year old! We have actually had considerable success, now, though, and he's not quite 7 years old. The poor boy met his match with a mother as fixated on him learning as he was on avoiding the issue and I broke the whole process down to the nth degree (just like you!) just to show him how he could cope with each stage after all, despite physical and emotional issues around the whole process. I reckon he's probably better at it than most other boys his age, by now!

I do hope your ds manages to get over his phobia about pooing anywhere other than at home (albeit I know plenty of grown ups with the same problem - it isn't exactly fun to stink out someone else's toilet!!!!! And then there's the terror of not being able to flush it! My ds1 still doesn't have strong enough hands for successful flushing most of the time...). Maybe if he realised that being a perfect bottom wiper at age 9 isn't totally to be expected, he wouldn't be quite so scared? (I know my ds1 seemed to think he either could or couldn't do something, rather than there being lots of learning stages in between that other people can respect and understand, if they are people that are worth knowing at all).

Is your ds's school understanding and helpful re these issues?

[Solo2]

Thanks for the kind words. Hope DS2 will get there in the end before he has to go away for 4 days/ nights abroad with the school! We'll keep practising.

He also has a major phobia about pooing in any loo other than at home or if we're staying somewhere altogether as a family. So this will challenge him on many fronts.

[chocolatemonkey]

Wipe - check, wipe - check, wipe - check is good advice. Folowed by clean with soap - check, clean with soap - check to make sure they have not missed anything on their hands...

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

Well said dirty and I agree Solo you sound amazing xx

[DirtyMartini]

Solo2: respect. How lucky he is to have a mother who takes the time and effort to help him so thoughtfully. That's awesome. I mean I know it's a practical necessity but you sound very loving about it :)

Did not anticipate that there would actually be anything moving on a thread about wiping bottoms. That's MN, always expect the unexpected

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

What age did you start teaching him Lucy88??

[Lucy88]

Here was the step by step guide I used for my son:

Take 4 peices of toilet roll
Place it across your knee
Fold in half
Place it across your knee again
Fold it in half
Place the paper in your hand and clamp your thumb across the end
Wipe your bum and stop when I say - Iwe had to practise the wipe bit quite a lot, so he knew when to stop, so he didn't go up his back.
Check the paper
Wipe again
Check the paper

Flush and wash hands

It has taken a couple of months, but he is really good at it now and he's 5. Just keep going with them and guide them through it.

[Solo2]

Well I have a son with Asperger's traits who is 9 and has real difficulty still with this. Poor boy also has constantly 'loose' stools -and we still don't know why. Consequently, he can't really manage yet alone, so I help him with those moist Kandoos. However, it's pretty urgent that he needs to learn to DIY, as he goes away on a school trip next yr. When he's (rarely) stayed with friends before, he's come home with poo on his sleeves, bum and pants, smelling.

So this is what I'm currently working on: I'm breaking down each part of the task into tiny steps and getting him only to do one step at a time. We first did - "roll up your sleeves ABOVE the elbows". Then we did, "Pull off about 5 squares of toilet roll and fold them so that they're a nice strong 'wodge' that none of your fingers will go through".

Then (and we're still on this bit), I do most of the wiping with Kandoos and he does the very last wipe with the ordinary paper "Make sure you've got right into the crack and rubbed either side of it". The reason for this, in his case, is to build his confidence (he's pretty phobic about the whole thing) and always end in success - a clean bum, with minimum effort.

My next step however will be "look at the paper and see if you can see smears on it? If so, repeat the same thing with more paper etc etc"

The problem is that he almost NEVER has a poo that is firm and formed, so it ALWAYS ends up smeared up his outside bum cheeks. He's slightly dyspraxic and so can't easily do what's needed to scoop and wipe it all off efficiently. But eventually, he's going to have to do the best he can, shower frequently and have lots of spare pants to change into. But he'll also need to be AWARE that he needs to check for smearing.

So in many ways, in this area, he's v much like a 3 to 4 yr old who's just learning - except with maximum embarassment now, poor thing.

The hardest bit will be how to help him wipe the first 4 to 5 times when there's a lot of runny poo, without getting a lot on his hands and I think I'll also have to do, "check your hands and if they're dirty, wipe them with toilet roll before continuing on your bum". There are actually a LOT of component parts to the whole task, including of course the handwashing afterwards. I'm also afraid of making him phobically paranoid about a bit of smearing or obsessive with handwashing - which can happen in children like him. So it's really difficult!

But generally, to parents of younger DCs, I'd say get them to get good enough at one part of the process and then move onto the next, if they're struggling - otherwise accept the extra laundry and ensure they bath regularly!

Blocking the loo with too much paper is of course another whole ball game!

[kreecherlivesupstairs]

Bend over and wipe wipe wipe. Stretch mummy, I've done that. Particularly when it has been so bad that it looks like a ploughed field in her gusset.

[MarineIguana]

I'm sure nursery will have seen it all and be used to poo everywhere. Apoocalypse as it's called in our house.

[stretchmummy]

Also, you need to encourage them to go wherever, even at nursery. Constipation in the under-5s is not at all convenient. Believe me, I know.

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

What should I expect re nursery?? They are a 0-4 nursery if that makes a difference?

[stretchmummy]

(non-biological doesn't touch skid marks at all) in fact I confess to putting really bad pants straight in the bin. You cannot conceive how much this scandalised my mother.

[stretchmummy]

Do not expect your child to take more than a token stab at it. Reduce the roughage in their diet to stiffen things up a bit....and lay in a good supply of biological washing powder, you're going to need it!

[MarineIguana]

I allocated this task to DP, reasoning that he also has to teach DS to wee standing up (as I don't have a willy, nor a clue) so might as well be in charge of other toilet stuff too. He hasn't really cracked it yet (ahem, so to speak) (he's 5) but like taffeta I'm a bit "la la la whatever, your job DP"

Asked DS what happens at nursery and now school, and he just says he never poos there. :)

[mylifewithstrangers]

DD is 3y9m and I have got her some flushable (moist) loo paper. She has a stab at it, but can only do it standing as can't balance on loo at same time. Standing means she doesn't really have good 'access' though. I always have to do a double check. It's a start though.

She does do it for herself at nursery, but I think ny preference she doesn't actually poo at nursery if she can help it (often quite desperate when we get home)

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

But hang on before they wipe! Do you get them to wrap the paper around their hand?? Bend over???

I need a basic step by step guide!

Should add DS is just 3 but from threads I have searched, the expectation seems to be he should be able to do it for nursery?!

[taffetazatyousantaclaus]

DH explained it for ours. He is quite, ahem, explicit. He talks of parting cheeks and stuff. I am afraid I leave the room.

[lal123]

DD (7) is quite good at it now - pity she hasn't mastered flushing.

[DirtyMartini]

Me too.

[puffylovett]

Subbing !! I'd love some help too