Do names still have a class association?

[Snowcatrunsthehouse]

From just reading a few threads I have noticed some names are described as posh ie the Tabitha thread? Now a lovely name but I just don’t see it as posh as to be honest all names seem very versatile now. How can an old biblical name liked enough to be given regularly to the family cat suddenly be “posh”?
Ie Rupert was perhaps a stereotypical posh name in the sense that a book or Tv show may have used it to highlight a upper class type of character a few years back. Now I can find little Ruparts everywhere and certainly no posh stereotype attached. Old names ie William, James, John, Henry, Elizabeth, Mary, Sarah, Margaret Catherine etc seem to have always been just names everyone from royalty to workhouse could use.
So do class definitions by name still exist in modern multi cultural societies where everyone seems to be just middle class?
If they do what sort of names fit the upper , middle and lower class groups?
Odd question I know but humar me as my brain has got confused.

[biscuitmillionaire]

There are some names that don't have any particular class association, eg Amy.

There are some that most definitely do, e.g. Ellie-mai or Xanthe.

I think, the name choice of parents signifies what 'tribe' they belong to, and their aspirations. Not just class tribe, but for example, alternative hippy types will call their child Sky or Phoenix. Parents from an academic background might call their child a classical Greek name. Parents who have a romantic nostalgia for their grandparents' country or region of origin might call their child a name from that area. Parents who consider themselves very straight-down-the line ordinary and non-pretentious will give their child a name like Thomas.

[cheminotte]

As long as class exist so will class associations with names.
Some names are similar but yet not eg Robert and Rupert.

[Sessy19]

It’s 2018. We live in a multicultural, developed country (UK), and social mobility IS a thing.

ANYONE, from any financial heritage, can go to university, get a degree in Law, go to the bar and serve as a Lawyer in a competitive firm. Regardless of their name.

It’s an utterly LUDICROUS suggestion to imply that someone might be inhibited in their future based only on their name. Absolutely fucking RIDICULOUS!

[OnlyFoolsnMothers]

biscuitmillionaire v agree- good points

[EsmereldaPepperpot]

@Sessy19 well not really. In fact it's been the subject of lots of studies. People do carry bias. People who are in charge of hiring other people. It does matter. We all make decisions that will advantage/disadvantage our children and their names are one of the first. Like it or not.

[TatianaLarina]

It’s not a cross section of the general consensus.

Yeah that’s a thing.

Names have social mobility too. They can go up and down.

In the 80s the only Olivias I knew were middle-aged upper middle class.
The only Alfies and Reggies around were OAP Eastenders.

[SpottingTheZebras]

I think it is a fact that there are many people who will have preconceived expectations of what someone will be like based on their name. These expectations might be wrong but the first impression could be already made before someone has spoken or even been seen.

The upper classes often tend to have classic names, much like those used in the Royal Family - so Catherine, Charlotte, Elizabeth, Alice, Alexandra, Clementine, William, Charles, George, Henry, Edward, James etc. It’s unlikely you will come across Shane, Wayne, Donna, Lola-Mae etc and even less likely you’ll come across names with modernised spellings.

[wheezing]

@Sessy19 yes of course they can (although now more go to university than not so that in itself doesn’t mean that much) but social mobility is no higher now than it was a generation ago. What your parents did and how much money they had impacts on your chances in life. This isn’t an opinion, it’s proven over and over again.

[Sessy19]

Doesn’t mean that THIS generation needs to perpetuate that, though does it?

[EsmereldaPepperpot]

Using a unique name will not undo bias. Telling people bias is bad will not undo bias. If you reckon you can undo human bias do tell scientists....we can all stop blinding trials! Would save sqillions.

[Taffeta]

Names just seem to reflect parents aspirations

I grew up with Rupert, Quentin, Julian, and all were named because of their parents aspirations

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Both of my DDs’ names are on here! DD2’s name is originally German and she was named for my great aunt.

[Icecoldchilli]

Names are a funny thing.
George for example, is the name of Kate and Williams son, and an old name.
Where I work there are lots and lots of working class George’s, due to the ‘st George’s flag’ ‘our boys in afganistan’ Vibe, which puts me off.

Similarly, there are a few very working class Arabellas, which I believe to be due to people liking the name ‘Bella’ because of twilight and wanting a more unique name than Isabella.

I know more than two doctors with daughters called Ruby, which is slated on here.

‘Eva’ seems to be the name shouted harshly across playgrounds/supermarkets here, and it’s a old, international name.

🤷‍♀️

[manicinsomniac]

There are names which are steretypically associated with certain classes for sure. And I suppose that means that there must be a certain amount of truth to it. But I think it can only be a general correlation between a name and a class, never a hard and fast rule.

Shout “Kayden! Chantelle! Paige!” in a playground in Hampstead and see how many kids respond

I work in a private boarding school in the Home Counties and I've taught 2 Chantelles and a Paige. I've also taught creative spellings, hyphens and several 'mn condemned' names.

[MaisyPops]

Yes they do have associations.

We can debate whether they should until the cows come home (and even then some on MN will ride in on their high horse claiming they never have bias or judge ever and they'd rather be called sparkle-trixxii-flutterbye-delilah than a snob).

As a previous poater said, people who are aware of bias and preconceptions and association are better placed than those who claim ignorance.

[SpottingTheZebras]

I work in a private boarding school in the Home Counties and I've taught 2 Chantelles and a Paige. I've also taught creative spellings, hyphens and several 'mn condemned' names.

You are confusing money with class. They are totally different things.

[sonnyboo]

Names definitely move classes eg Sebastian, Quentin, Hugo, Florence were all seen as 'posh' a few years ago but are now quite commonplace.

I think the book Freakonomics explains how this happens.

[LeeMiller]

Names do move classes, but the movement is in one direction. Freaknomics calls it the trickle-down effect. That's why a name can have different class associations depending on the age of its bearer.

[catinboots9]

I wish I had a crushed velvet sofa in Dubai.

#dreams

Wouldn't it be a bit of a sweatfest though??

[malfoyy]

My full name is Anne-Marie. So this makes me a lower class 'chav' because it has a hyphen?

I feel so loved today.

[ArtisanPopcorn]

I work in university admissions and the kids in their late teens that come to open days with names like Phoebe, Hugo, Freya etc tend to be quite middle class whereas children born now with those names could be any class.

When I was choosing a name for my daughter I got the impression from mumsnet that surname names, American sounding names, miss spellings and hyphenated names are quite looked down upon.

[Sessy19]

Ultimately, the ‘class’ association of any name is the sole responsibility of those who bestow the name.

Social mobility of names IS a thing, and there is a change occurring. If I was deemed a ‘chav’ or working class, or middle class, the name I gave my child would be a reflection on me, but not necessarily my child.

And there are no solid rules for what name belongs to any ‘class’. It’s also determined by location, so a name in Surrey might be considered too awful for a middle-class suburbian child, but in Yorkshire might be considered terribly OTT or old-fashioned.

If I gave my child the name that others associated as being ‘inappropriate’ for my class, then I would be slated for it (on MN, or behind my back or whatever). But could honestly not stop someone’s progression up the class-system.

[Sessy19]

The term ‘posh’ is not a measure of class

[Icecoldchilli]

Another interesting thing I’ve noticed is that double-barrelled surnames seem to be an indicator of ‘lower classness’.

My parents would say that double-barrelled surnames are posh, think Hugh Fernley-Whittinngstall. But for children, double barrelled surnames seem to be more common amongst deprives groups, perhaps because their parents are less likely to be married.

[Icecoldchilli]

Whereas the children AND the father taking the mothers name is very middle class