to complain about ds swimming teacher?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

Seriously pissed off, but dunno if I just forget about it, or complain to the pool.

Paid £100 for course of lessons for ds (5, almost 6).

Today was the last one. I was watching from the cafe through glass screen, so couldn't do anything, as I was landside with dd (16 months). He spent the entire lesson standing at the side of the pool shivering, bar literally 30-40 seconds where he 'swam' about 20m.
Last week wasn't much better.

I challenged the teacher then and she just said he didn't want to get in because he was cold . I pointed out maybe he was cold because he was stood on the side for ages.

If in school a kid can't just say I don't want to do the sums, so the maths teachers says ok, don't do them, or the kid say they don't want to play netball and the PE teacher say, ok no problem. I paid really loads of money for this swim course, and she basically left him to shiver out of the water at the side of the pool.

AIBU? He is only 5, so feel he needs encouragement and maybe even being firmly told to get in the pool and get on with it. Obviously it's more convenient for her to effectively have 1 less pupil to bother about.

Or do I just never take him to swimming lessons again and hope he doesn't drown

[ErnestTheBavarian]

but he was just cold! When I callenged the teacher one time she said it was because he was cold. he's cold becuase you're leaving him stood out of the pool you dopey lazy bint. A 5 year old isn't necessarily going to twig or appreciate that getting in the water will be warmer.

But she didn't encourage him at all from the few sessions I saw.

Other parents paid for lessons - a lot of their kids stood out doing eff all for big chunks of time too, though only my ds for the whole time. I wouldn't expect her to spend hours cajoling him, but in the 45 minutes yesterday, she spoke to him once in an exchange that can't have lasted more than 10 seconds.

I will say something next time I go in.

Thanks for input and useful suggestions.

[ZZZenAgain]

comprendo

[LilyBolero]

Zzen, no, nor was my dd. Didn't mean she wasn't scared of getting in the water for a lesson. With me she was like a fish. With the teacher she was crying on the side. She simply wasn't ready for a formal swimming lesson, despite being able to swim.

[ZZZenAgain]

this is not a child who is scared of the water though, he is used to it already, by not getting in he isn't improving or learning anything.

It isn't about getting a terrified child into the water against their will

[LilyBolero]

You must have been luck with the children in your children's class - it's fairly common for them to have anxieties about getting in. And there's only so much time a teacher can spend getting a child in.

The other children's parents have paid for their lessons too! And most of the swimming teachers I know will make a certain amount of effort to get in, but when it's clear that they're not going to, they just have to focus on the rest of the class.

[ZZZenAgain]

I would complain. You are paying for him to learn to swim, not stand outside the pool. They are not meeting their part of their contract. A teacher should be firm and clear enough to get a 5 year old in the pool. Now she has left it up to him, it will be difficult to turn it around.

When dd had swimming classes this never happened with any child. I think you need (without being nasty about it of course) a no nonsense approach from the teacher. Is this not a heated pool? Dd always learnt in a heated pool. It's only really when they are already swimming and building up stamina that they need a non heated pool.

[hippipotamiHasLost75lbs]

Having read the whole thread, I would complain. But not all guns blazing.
I would point out that there was an awful lot of standing on the side, that the children got cold, that 10 in a group was too many and that the teacher appeared unable to incluce all the children in her group.
Yes perhaps your ds was not comitted tot he lessons (coming to you in the baby pool and refusing to get in) but a decent teacher should either coax him in or come and find you to sort it out - not leave him shivering on the side.
I don't think you can demand your money back, but if you tell the office/desk at the pool of your disappointment and ask about priviate lessons you may be able to wangle one private lesson free by means of a goodwill gesture.
At the very least they need to know you were unhappy so they can improve on their lessons.

[LilyBolero]

Having read the thread through, I wouldn't complain, but I wouldn't rebook the same sort of lessons,as he obviously doesn't 'click' with them

Fwiw, dd had a term of lessons at age 4, and despite being very confident in the water, the lessons were the WORST thing we could have done - she was petrified of the teacher, and spent LOTS of time on the side of the pool, refusing to get in. By the end of the term she would get in the water, but wouldn't do anything if the teacher was watching. She just wasn't ready for lessons.

We stopped the lessons and I took her and ds1 once a week, on the proviso that I would now be teaching her, and she would do what I said! She got the swimming pretty quickly, and then when she was 5.4 we started again with the same teacher ds1 had (she is STILL scared of the other teacher, who is a fab teacher, ds1 had him, but dd just found him scary). She LOVED the lessons this time, and made huge progress very quickly.

Sometimes they just aren't ready for swimming lessons, even if they're confident in the water. I'm really glad we didn't persevere with dd's lessons until a bit later, as she is a great swimmer now!

[ErnestTheBavarian]

You're right ML, that's exactly what I will do.

Hercules, I was sat watching. It was pretty obvious what was said. (1 and only exchange between the 2 of them in 45 minutes).

I asked him afterwards and he told me, and what he said was exactly what it looked like.

[hercules1]

I assumed you were there as you were able to accurately quote exactly what happened and what was said between the two. Thanks for the though....

[ErnestTheBavarian]

If it was a question of merely telling him myelf to get in I would have done. Hadn't thought of that

Because I was in the cafe, not in the pool area, I would have had to leave all my stuff unattended, ask to be allowed into the changing rooms, take off my socks and shoes, while holding grumpy baby off the wet floor, walk through the showere, fully clothed, walk across to the pool. By which time they might have moved onto the jacuzzi/other pool/ he might have got in. Then I would have had to go back into the chnaging rooms, try to dry feet and pout shoes on, while holding dd off wet floor etc etc. Only to do it all again in 15 mins or whatever at end of lesson.

Not quite so simple as telling him to get in the pooll myself.

I have tried being in the baby pol woth dd at the time and encouraging him to participate, but that brought it's own set of problems.

I paid 100 bloody squid.

[MmeGoblindt]

Seriously, Ernest.

Go to the pool and ask if they know anyone who does private lessons. Mention that you were not too happy with the collective lessons while you are at it.

Often the lifeguards will offer lessons, they are happy to stay on for an hour after their shift.

If you have 10 kids in a class, then even if the teacher is vigilant and really includes all the children, she cannot spend more than a 5 or 6 minutes with each child.

[hercules1]

But if you heard all this then why not go up to him and tell him to get in??

[ErnestTheBavarian]

he wasn't misbehaving - he was stood on the side, along with say 6 others. only is she'd ask them to get in and try and swim a length, he would say no I'm too cold, and she said, oh, ok then and left him shivering there for 45 bloody minutes. He wasn't badly behaved. He was a cold 5 yerar old boy left to stand at the side of the pool cos she didn't have the ability or the sense to include him.

[hercules1]

I pay for dd to have lessons with 1:4 ratio. I can't imagine getting any sort of moneys worth for 1:10. Plus I personally would only do 1/2 hour lesson - not sure of any value in a one hour lesson.

I have to say it has annoyed me in the past if the swimming teacher has had to deal with behaviour of other children in the class (ds been through this as well). It cuts into the time I am paying for and I would be especially annoyed if the parent of the child wasn't around to deal with the child themselves.

I dont see it to be the swimming teachers job to deal with behaviour - just to teach swimming. I took dd as a toddler to ds's lessons and was always there in easy reach shoudl he have mucked about.
However, I can understand your annoyance. I would seek other arrangements for lessons instead with a much smaller ratio.

[MaryBS]

DD had 5 terms of swimming lessons, and got nowhere. When they said she had to rejoin the same class, we quit. One man said his daughter had done 8 terms in the same class.

We then went on holiday, and DD learnt to swim in 5 days, with a one on one 1/2 hour a day. Wasn't supposed to be one on one, but she was the only swimmer at that time of day!

Don't waste any more money!

[ErnestTheBavarian]

it was direct with the swimming pool. Totally bizarre and crap. with ds1 & 2, they stayed with the same teacher and progressed up through the badges. If they didn't achieve the Ziel, they stayed in that class, if they did, they moved up a group, but always with same teacher, just different time. Here, they have this curse with crap T, she couldn't tell me if he would achieve the Ziel or not (when I found out what the Ziel was, I could tell her he wouldn't ) SO I couldn't book him to a new lesson, as I had no idea what course to boook him into. Now the next courses available are in january. Sigh. Good in a way though, as I am totally put off putting him in a course again.

Will def look into private lessons. I know some people manage to teach their kids, but with 4, including 16mo it's just not possible for me.

[MmeGoblindt]

I don't think that you are being unreasonable, Ernest. You paid for lessons and were not happy with the service you got.

I do think that one teacher for 10 children is not enough. We looked at a class for DD and I was not happy that the teacher had so little time for each child.

Also, the fact that your DS did not have any FUN whatsover is not good. It will make him reluctant to go to further courses.

Were the classes arranged by a private company or a Verein? I do not think that you will get far complaining to a Verein tbh, or if the teacher is self employed.

Fwiw, DD had private lessons. I paid 16eu per lesson and could arrange them to suit me and my schedule. She went to lessons two or three times a week so progress was pretty quick.

I think she had about 10 lessons and could swim by about the 7th lesson. After 10 lessons she achieved her Seepferdchen.

[sunnydelight]

I would be really unhappy about the fact that you have raised this before and nothing has happened, but tbh I think maybe you needed to be a bit more visible so she knew you were keeping an eye on things (not exactly easy with a little one, I know).

I would second the suggestion of 1:1. Having spent a fortune on group lessons that DS2 always managed to avoid/not participate in etc. ten minutes into his first 1:1 he turned into a fish and never looked back. They look expensive but often work out lots cheaper in the end.

[ErnestTheBavarian]

no, I mentioned it to her on more than 1 occasion that I was concerned that he was out of the water so much. Some times she denied he was, even though I had seen him out so much. Trouble is, I have to have my 16 month old with me. At first I was going in the water too. A couple of times he came up, say half way through saying the teacher's really nice and said I can finish already . I told him in no uncertain terms that he had to go back and rejoin his lesson. SO I tried sitting in the cafe to avoid him coming to join me in the baby pool. Neither seemed to work.

The lessons ds1 & 2 did were varied and fun, the kids were mostly in the water, she had loads of different apparatus, like hoops to swim through, things to pick up of the bottom, standard stuff really. These lessons were dry as bone even witht he pool water thrown in, not at all fun, no 'learn through play' slant at all. Really shit quality. Was a choice of take it or leave it, so I guess I'll have to leave it.

Not sure if I'll complain or not, though I am really cross about it.

Thing is, ds can be stubborn, but if he was told to get in and do the exercise I'm sure he would.but she merely invited him, ie do you want to jump in now, and he naturally said no, and she didn't bother with him.

I tried to discuss the problem at least 3 times with her, and she didn't act on anything I said or try to change the situation.

[snorkie]

bethylou I would agree that an ASA level 2 teachers certificate is ridiculously easy compared to a PGCE but it should still briefly cover dealing with reluctant pupils. I do think that a teacher has a responsibility to all the children in the class - if a child won't get in for one or at most two lessons, then some alternative strategy needs to be devised (involving parents and or helpers) for subsequent lessons. I don't think it's at all reasonable to have a child sat out for a course of 10 or 12 lessons without having discussed the problem & plans to overcome it with the parents at least. Maybe the OPs ds was more cooperative earlier in the course though, we don't know.

[Rollergirl1]

YANBU. I would be livid.

My DD is having swimming lessons at the moment. She is 3.7. I paid £140 for 14 lessons. The lessons are 30mins long and there are only 4 in the class. She is 3 lessons down. My daughter is quite reticent and probably wouldn't get in herself if given the chance but the instructor is amazing. She basically doesn't give them a chance to refuse. She is really fun and makes them laugh, starting off by working out what size "swimming muscles" (arm-bands) they need. Then she jumps in and lifts each child in. They spend the entire time in the pool. When they are not taking their turn at the activity they are holding on to the side. I thought my DD would object to this but she is fine with it. I think this is a good thing as the more time they spend out of the water the more likely it is that they don't want to get back in. She also then has complete control of them.

I think the key is shorter lessons, smaller classes and being firm yet fun.

If you're interested their website is here

[EvilTwins]

I think it's a tricky one. My DTs are 3.3, and have started swimming lessons this term. They are both confident in the water, which is why they're doing the lessons they are - 4 in the class, 30 min lesson with one very lovely (male) teacher. One of my DTs is happy with the lessons, and goes in brilliantly, and does what she's asked to do etc. The other is more timid, especially with men she doesn't know, so I'm hanging around in the pool during lessons (mostly swimming, obviously, but checking she is OK) Originally, there were only 3 of them in the lesson, but another DC arrived in the 4th week, and was reticent to get into the pool. The teacher spent a good 10 minutes (of a 30 minute) lesson trying to persuade her to do what the other 3 had just done. I was in the pool, so saw that he was employing good tactics to cajole her into joining in, but she really wasn't having any of it. I was seriously pissed off that he spent a third of the lesson concentrating on one child, especially as she just didn't want to join in.

So whilt I understand why you're annoyed, OP, I do think YABU to want to complain about the teacher - why should she spend ages trying to convince your DS to get in the pool, thus taking her away from the rest of the class. It's her job to teach swimming, not to waste time persauding your DS to get in the water in the first place. You're right - in school, a teacher wouldn't just say "OK" if a DC didn't want to do his maths work, but that teacher would have plenty of school sanctions to fall back on - the swimming teacher doesn't have that.

I think you need to speak to your DS about it, not the swimming teacher.

[floatyjosmum]

YANBU at all,

i pay £33 for 6 weeks of 45 mins for my 2,
there are 3 in the beginners class with 2 instructors and about 6 in the nextclass up with either 1 or 2 adults.
although its not their job to cajole them into the pool - would annoy me if my kids lessons were affected - they still shouldnt let kids sit out as much as that!