to expect dh to help around the house more?

[holytoast]

right, warning, this is a very long rant!
We have been married for 2 years, and together for 7. I am now pregnant after a year of trying, and whilst to begin with, felt a bit poo, now I am feeling better, have much more energy etc. I have always done all the housework, despite us both working very full time jobs, and both of us earning the same.
The lack of him doing anything has always bothered me, and he knows it. we have sporadic weeks when he will feel guilty and help out - for a while he decideed, when I had a bad back, to start doing the washing - this soon tailed off, and now I do it all. he has only cleaned the toilet once in 7 years. he leaves empty cartons on the side, never shuts doors to any rooms, leaves lights on, leaves clothes all over the floor, never seems to understand the concept of picking things up after himself - he will walk over the pile of crap that I leave on the stairs for the next time anyone is going up - this is all, I am guessing, run of the mill stuff - except that riends of minehave mentioned that he is a really bad case - although knowing how bad he was, they say I should be pleased when he does the washing up - a year ago he wouldn't have known where the hot tap was! I do all the shopping, (he doesn't drive) sort all the bills and household finances, and generally keep us organised. It's a bit much, but I do it all because no-one else will. Its not that he doesn't do it if I ask, just that he doesn't seem to get that any of it needs doing!when I ask, its as if I am having to ask very politely, and thank him afterwards - but I do it everyday with no thanks!
Thing is, I can see that at some point I will need to slow down - I am only 12 weeks now, so fine for a while hopefully, but I have my career, and another small business outside of work, which brings in extra money.I also have a burst disc in my back, and sciatica, which can be agonising, so sometimes its just impossible.
He is irish, and whilst I don't mean to be rude, he sufers from having an irish mother - his dad has never even made himself a cup of tea - he actually doesn't know how to!
He does cook however, a fair amount, (he enjoys it - not the cleaning up or putting lids on things afterwards though) and he does do all of our diy (although I do all the cleaning up, the runs to the tip, the wood yard, etc) - we have been doing up our house every weekend practically for 4 years, so maybe I am being unreasonable to expect him to help out around the house during the week? Thing is, he enjoys knocking down walls, building things etc - he leaves ne the jobs he doesn't - like putting up coving! (none of it is up, as a result!)

I just worry that it will never change, I will always have to be the one running around after the children (him included) cleaning up, making sure everyone is wearing clothes, paying bills, and generally being the responsible one!

then again, maybe he is doing his bit, and I should stop moaning and get on with it.

aaargh!
Right, of to the tip, then to clean the toilet...

[holytoast]

wow! can of worms and opening!

I agree, Mariellas advice was shite - lots better on here!

Well, I just got home from our 12 week scan today, very exciting, but also I think a good way to talk about all the above with the lazy arse my poor misguided, badly brought up, DH.

Have done the dinner - but left the washing up for him and have emailed him at work telling him he can nip to the shop if he wants for anything he needs urgently as I am too tired to do the shopping, and may do it tomorrow.

Am going to discuss possibilty of getting a cleaner once he has finished the major structural stuff - would be far too embarassed to get one now as a thick layer of brick dust all over everything would be a bit much to ask them to sort out methinks!

Like the idea of sorting out jobs in order of things we don't mind doing - I am really clumsy and always break stuff - so he can do the bloody washing up!

Still, its not going to be instant - know that much - it's years of conditioning by his bloody mother that I haven't done a lot to undo!

It is interesting to see that I am not the only one - but also what other people see as normal - especially where situations like mine have been going on for years - which is a really good wake up call for me!
On the other hand, have very good friends, where the husband has, since the wifes first pregnancy, done everything - nappy changing, cleaning, cooking, everything - and all our male friends do is complain that she is lazy and doesn't do her fair share- however we support her by saying 'if it were the other way round, no-one would blink an eye' (however secretly agreeing that she is lazy)
whats all that about?

[LadyoftheBathtub]

It is true that agreeing to do a particular set of chores every day has worked well for my DP. He does them because they are routine and "his jobs" as agreed by us both. It has saved a lot of nagging which I used to do before we agreed on this system. He is just very, very poor at seeing things that need doing and fitting them in or doing them in passing - he likes routine. I would not let him get away with less than his share but I think it's OK to work with his tendencies IYSWIM.

[Undercovamutha]

OP - know exactly how you feel. Our house was/is a big rennovation project and my DH has worked VERY hard over the past few years (weekends and evening) to do it up single-handedly (I hate DIY !).
The problem is, for us, that I started taking on most of the household duties to 'free' up DH to crack on sorting the house. However, what has now happened is DH has more or less finished the DIY and has 'forgotten' how to do housework, so I still do nearly everything.
What has worked a bit re. the DCs (3 and 6mo) is that he deals with them 100% re bath/bedtime. By 5.30 I'm normally frazzled and happy to cook tea and clear up afterwards if it means an hour of child free peace.
I think some useless men need set roles every day (like bathing DCs) cos they can't be relied upon to slog away at all the little things that need doing. DO recognise that your DH does the DIY, but explain that you need the same amount of downtime.

On a plus point my lazy DHs passion for lying prone on the sofa comes in very handy for supervising the children whilst I get on with things. He also doubles as bouncy castle/cot!!!

[SolidGhoulBrass]

There is no inherent biological difference between men and women that means men can't do shitwork. THey just don't wnat to do it (hey, who does?) so they have convinced women that women are better at it and mind mess more.
Bullshit. I have never lived with a partner, something which makes me happy every day, but of people I have dated and shagged, most of the men have been more houseproud than me. I am a right slob, but that's because I don't mind mess and hate housework. So I do think that sometimes the idea that it's a moral failure for a woman to have a messy house is one you need to lose: when divvying up the chores with a man, it's probalby a good idea to work out first what chores can be dumped or shoved to the bottom of the list (dusting? FFS once a year will do).

[chegirlknowswhereyoulive]

What about 'just because I dont do things to your standards' - somethings either clean or not fecking clean!

'I cant be expected to look at every bit of washing before putting it in the machine' when he has shrunk, dyed or destroyed yet another article of clothing.

'Well if its not good enough I wont do it then'. Like I have the choice to 'not do it' if someone annoys me.

'I have tried to help you sort it all out but you wont listen to me and do it the way I say it should be done so I just give up' after telling me about his theories on how the housework would be easy if we only did it his way.

Didnt have any of it. Refuse to treat him like a moron who is incapable of washing, cleaning or hoovering. I wouldnt say he does a fair share but he does do stuff. He has an excuse because he has a disability that makes it harder for him. My DSs are also expected to learn how to wash up and iron etc.

[stellamel]

... especially the having to thank them profusely when they do something!

[stellamel]

God holytoast, that OP could have been written by me right down to the DIY and going to the tip bit - except my OH never cooks either. Oh and I already have 1 DD and am 29 weeks preggers with DC 2, work 3 days a week, college one day and am at home on Fri with DD.

No words of advice, but just wanted to say you're not alone and I FEEL for you! Am off to read the rest of the posts and hope there's some useful advice I can pinch!

[LadyoftheBathtub]

OMG @ Mariella! I'm disappointed!

She is being sarcastic for a lot of it but - I thought she was going to get a bit more hard-nosed feminist towards the end. Nope. She seems so be basically saying, "Ahh, men!" Not good enough.

I don't agree with the going on strike thing because it's passive-aggressive and manipulative and also, not very practical when you have a baby - the washing needs doing, it's unfair on the baby to make it live in filth. Most people including men are intelligent enough to understand that it's unfair and to come to some agreements.

[bibbitybobbityCAT]

The Mariella Frostrup advice column in The Observer yesterday was on exactly this subject op! I have to say I found her reply/advice extremely lame.

here

[BlingLoving]

I agree with almost everything that's already been said but would just make one point which is that in all co-habiting relationships there is unlikley to be absolute agreement on what constitutes clean and tidy and you have to take that into account. So, of course he must pull his weight and take responsibility for things so that together you are responsible for your home but, I think it's unrealistic to expect that he's magically going to start picking up clothes on the floor if it genuinely doesn't bother him as he will never understand your issue. At best there, you can get some compromise, "Darling, it really really freaks me out when there are clothes all over the floor so please can you at least dump them on this chair as a compromise for me."

In our house, I'm cleaner than dh but not neat. Which works for us - I do the cleaning and he does the tidying. But it means also that I have to make some efforts to be tidier even though I'll never live up to his standards and he has to make some effort to think about the cleanliness of things, even if he wouldn't notice otherwise (last week, our cleaner didn't come and I found DH changing the bedding because he knows it bothers me if it's left for more than a week - I was about to do it. I love him for that!).

[zazen]

I agree, the OP has to start thinking ahead to the example she and her DH are giving their DC.

Take the emotion out of the situation - would you put up with this laziness from a flat mate? From a friend?
So, how come your DH gets off doing his share?

And also, when you have a new baby - that will be your job, and it's a full time, full on one - housework is not your job, and cleaning up after an able bodied adult who shares the space certainly isn't your job.

Stillfrazzled I get the pip also when I hear of men Babysitting their own children.
Don't get me started..

[Shitemum]

I havent read the whole thread but just want to say something which will probably provoke a feminist storm.
It is very difficult to get someone to change their ways to the extent that your DP needs to change his. Even if he does start to pull his weight more he will probably not do things the way you like or 'properly' so resentment will only grow.

If you can afford a cleaner or mother's help get one. Life's too short to spend most of it pissed off with your DP, believe me.
It's a pity because if you have a girl she'll grow up thinking men don't do housework and if it's a boy the same....

[missingtheaction]

Like everyone above says.

Stop using the word 'help'. You are both adults and parents and equal partners with equal responsibility for the running of the home. He is no more 'helping' you than you are 'helping' him. You work as many hours as him outside the home and then work another 40 inside the home while he only works another - what - five?

Not Fair! an outrage!

Everything said above is true - obviously he came badly trained and you are going to have to address that or eventually your marriage may break down. Not funny.

However, I would add that it might be worth sorting out all the household tasks into necessities and niceities: things that absolutely need doing (hygiene, clearing up after dinner, clean knickers ready for tomorrow) and things that you like but maybe are less crucial or can be delegated out and focussing him on the tasks that impact on him.

Also read great tip for getting dirty clothes put in laundry bin: reposition laundry bin to where clothes are generally dropped on the floor. Leave bin there and only wash clothes that have been transported to the washing machine. Worked for my teens.

[LadyoftheBathtub]

Totally agree about not using the word "help" about people sharing a house doing the housework - never use it, but especially never to him, because it's telling him that it's basically your job, and it's not. You both work, you both live there, the jobs at home are yours to share 50:50. IMO that also applies when you are off work with a baby, because then the childcare becomes your job, and there is still stuff to do in the evening.

Tell him this can't go on, and he has to change, as this is sexist. If he doesn't like it ask how he would feel doing all the housework on top of working full time and being pregnant, just because of his gender? Maybe not eh?

Sit down and share out the housework jobs. The cooking and DIY are already shared equally by the sound of it - he does it, you clear up - so leave them out of it and list all the other jobs. Each take the jobs you like / find easiest where possible (eg in our house I do washing, DP does dishes, I do admin, DP does hoovering, because we prefer those jobs) but make sure it's fair.

[SolidGhoulBrass]

Two things to consider, OP (and all the rest of you married to lazyarses).

1. There genuinely have been studies done which demonstrate that men who do their fair share of domestic work have much happier sex lives (because their DWs don't resent them and don't feel that sex is just another chore the wife has to perform for the husband's benefit)
   
2. The simplest way to explain/demonstrate fairness in your marriage is the both of you are entitled to the same amount of leisure time ie if he wants one evening a week to play football or see mates, you get one evening a week to see your mates or indeed play football.

[pispirispis]

Whoops, don?t know what happened there. I meant:

No-one else is going to make sure you get a nice bubble bath with a book and some tea while your dh looks after the baby but you.

[pispirispis]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you?ll be a lot less keen on looking after your MIL?s ?darling son? once your darling son or daughter comes along, I can tell you that much. And the approach of gritting your teeth and getting on with doing everything yourself while seething with resentment is a recipe for complete and utter disaster once a baby comes along, because a baby is harder work than most full-time jobs (sorry, don?t mean to scare you) and you?ll need a real team player for a partner, not another child. It will be impossible to do everything yourself, and if your dh is not used to realising for himself that things need done, you?ll really have to fight for some time for yourself. You really have to learn to offload work onto our partner, or you?ll end up exploding with resentment at some point.

No-one else is going to make sure you get a nice bubble bath with a book and some tea while your dh looks after the baby but ΥOU. It?s hard work getting a lazy partner to change, but it?s so much better for your mental and physical health in the long run. He?s an adult, he needs to learn to take responsibility for his contribution around the house. Ask yourself him: was I born to clean up after you? And once the baby comes along, every time you realise you?re just mecanically getting on with everything while he sits on the sofa, stop yourself and say ?Darling, could you do X while I do y? There?s a dear. And after this you look after baby and I?m going for a walk/a lie down/etc.? And keep doing it! Practise it from now on.

I speak from experience btw. Good luck!

[Romanarama]

Mine magically changed his ways when dc3 was born. But we do have a daily cleaner, luckily. Sounds like that would be too long to wait for the OP!

[Quattrocento]

"Did anyones hubby magically change their ways once the bump got bigger, or when the baby came?"
Er, no. Best not to indulge in fantasies

[hercules1]

Why on earth does it matter to you that his mother thinks it's your job and so you are going to clean to prove to her it is??

When my family is coming I make the effort, when it's dh's side he does.

You need to change your own opinion on "womens work" before you can change his.

[holytoast]

hmm - like all those suggestions, I think I do somehow see it as my job to look after him - don't know why - think maybe we just see what our parents do and carry on doing it sometimes- my mum has always sacrificed what she wants for the rest of us and put herself second, and whilst I hope I am not as bad as that, I do see that I see it as my thing to make him happy - whilst his is making sure we have door handles and light switches that work!

I can't belittle the amount he does do to fix up our house - we bought it as a beautiful victorian place that had been through the disastorous 80s, and he has basically gutted the place and done everything - plumbing, electric, himself - however, we are nearly done, and want to be ableonce the baby is here to enjoy the fruits of our labour and actually enjoy weekends - but in order to do that I need to stop running around after him I guess!
I like the idea of getting a cleaner, even just a couple of hours a week would do it I suppose - but I would hate there to be clothes on the bedroom floor etc when they came, so would end up cleaning up beforehand anyway I think!
I can really see myself getting more and more annoyed at him - this is the only thing that we argue about, we are very happy apart from this, he is my best friend in a lot of ways, and we are equal - I earnt a lot more than him for a while, he supported me when I was studying - theres no resentment about money or anything like that - its just his basic inability to get that the elves don't come every night to clean up - its mad!

Will have to just make it clear to him that once I get bigger and the majority of the work is done on the house, he will have to start helping doing his bloody fair share!

However, now I really do have to go and clean, his bloody mother is coming to stay in two weeks, and fair division of labour or not, her view is that it is all my job to look after her darling son!

[fluffles]

ah yes, a friend once told me that the secret to a long and happy marriage is seperate laundry bins

DP does lots of sport and wears a suit to work - he sorts out his own laundry loads and does his own laundry.

I do my laundry and the bedding and don't iron . It works very well for us.