To be furious at ds's teachers?

[ginnny]

DS1 (9) is a bright little boy but lacks confidence. Last year at parents evening they told me that he has all the ability to be in the top maths group, but he's not fast enough and lacks self confidence.
He has just gone into year 5 and came home on Tuesday over the moon because this year he had been put in the top maths group. He had some homework, which he did well, only asked for help a few times and tried so hard.
Anyway, yesterday he came out of school really upset because his teacher said after having a chat with the maths teacher they want to put him back down to the middle maths group for a while. No explanation. Nothing.
So now he thinks he's rubbish at maths and not good enough. One week back at school and his confidence is at an all time low again. This is an important year for him as we will have to decide whether to put him in for the 11+.
I'm really not one of these pushy mums who wants him to be in the top group no matter what, but I think its so wrong to do this to him, especially when I saw how well he handled the homework. I wish they'd just left him where he was in the middle group, rather than build him up and knock him down again.
I?m so mad ? I could have cried for him yesterday, poor little thing.

[ginnny]

I saw the teacher. She said they did a test and he did really well so they put him in the top group.
Then she spoke to his year 4 teacher who said he was very quiet and her opinion was that he'd be better in the middle group, because although he is capable, there are a lot of children in this group and he wouldn't get the attention he needed and would probably struggle.
So they decided that since he'd only been in that group for 2 lessons it would be less of an upheaval to move him straight back to the middle group.
She is going to review it at half term and will speak to him to reassure him tomorrow.
I do agree with his year 4 teacher but all this could have been avoided if they'd consulted her before they decided.
She did apologise for the mix up and said that apart from this he's settling in well.
Thanks for all your support today.

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Ginny this is the same thing that happened to ds1. He was moved to the top set of math where we all praised him for his hard work etc and the following week they moved him back to middle set. Where he was at the top and found the work easy.

Now Maths is not his best subject and yet even though the school knew this they basically lowered his confidence in it even more so.

When it came to the sats he got a level 4 which I was proud of and yet the school having put him in the middle group were disappointed because he had not got a level 5 yet he had not been doing the work for that level iyswim?

He started secondary 2 weeks ago and within 2 maths lessons he has been put in the top set...so obviously his maths is not that bad or maybe its the fact that the teachers in this school are looking at his potential rather than his present ability...who knows.

I hope you got some satisfaction at the school.

[katiestar]

It is YOU who decides whether to put him in for 11+

[ginnny]

Peedoff - I agree with you that he would be happier in the middle set and I would be happy for him to stay there.
He's much the same as I was as a child, he's very shy and quiet and doesn't like to cause a fuss, but he was genuinely upset yesterday and I want to nip it in the bud and at least make them aware of how he is feeling so they can keep an eye on him and encourage him.
I'm really grateful for all the replies. I'm going to see the teacher this afternoon so I'll let you know what happens.

[PeedOffWithNits]

and to the OP

as a teacher,i think your child would be happier being at the top of the middle set, TBH, instead of getting all anxious about keeping up with the top set, and if they have flexibility to move them around and he comes on tremendously, then they can move him back again - rather now than leave it till christmas when it is apparent he cannot cope

but agree they have handled it badly

[PeedOffWithNits]

to the people who think children should not be streamed for primary school maths, of course they should!

when you have children starting juniors who are still not competent in number pairs that make 10, who cannot tell you without counting that they have 5 fingers on each hand, who cannot do basic subtractions like 5-3 in their heads, whilst others can add, subtract, divide and multiply in 100s and 1000s, of course you need to stream them!

Often it is done within the class, so each "table" is a group working on a particular piece of work, but the drawback of this is that the teacher and TA have 5 or 6 groups so several groups are left on their own. Far better IMO to stream them with the year above and below, where everyone in the class is on a par and the teacher is teaching them all so they make progress

ignoring the differences in ability makes the bright kids bored and the less able kids switched off and thinking from age 6 "i can't do maths", a mind set that is difficult to change in later years

[moomaa]

Maths is a funny subject because some people can just do it almost without thinking. I am not one of those people but can manage most stuff given enough time and I bounced between top and middle maths groups the whole time at school.

The way you described your son reminded me of me. Being with those people that can just 'do' maths when you are not one of them is miserable, it kills your confidence and you have a choice of holding up the group by questioning or moving onto harder stuff when you haven't had enough time to bed in the basics. I would encourage him to be happy at the top of the middle. At his age I would go and see the teacher to get the whole story but would also encourage him to take this in hsi stride because you can get moved groups a lot at secondary.

[katiestar]

sounds to me that there has been a bit of a communication mix up between the teachers and he has been put in the wrong set by accident

[sundew]

pinkdelight - they 'stream' or put into ability groups from an early age - usually from year 1 upwards for literacy and numeracy. This isn't to stress out the children but means they can different work to the different groups - so that the higher ability ones are given more difficult work to stretch them etc

[thedolly]

Perhaps the teacher is genuinely torn over what group to put your DS in. You could try to have a quite word about the chopping and changing in a 'there seems to be some confusion over which group DS is in for maths so I thought I would talk to you about it' sort of way.

[sundew]

ginny at my dds school the ability groups are pretty fluid with children moving between them on a regular basis - however, sfter saying that I think only giving your ds a couple of days in the top group is not enough for them to assess him properly.

But there is little point him being in the top group if the work is going to be too difficult - to see other children getting it right and for him to struggle would knock his confidence more I would have thought.

Hope it goes well when you speak to the teacher later.

[ginnny]

They were doing general maths as a class for the first week, then they got put into groups on Tuesday. Then yesterday he got moved down. I just realised I got the days mixed up earlier, I thought today was Friday . Wishful thinking!

[thedolly]

I assumed he had been in the top group since the beginning of term - is this not the case?

[DailyMailNameChanger]

TheDolly, two days is not "impressivly quick rectification of a situation" it is not long enough to even let the poor boy settle in never mind see if he would respond to a more challenging work load. Goodness only knows what they were thinking.

[ginnny]

I agree Pinkdelight - it is unnecessarily stressful for them.
I don't know if it is because this is an 11+ area and they stream them according to whether they will take it or not.
Whatever the reason I'm fed up with it all already and we're only 2 weeks into the term!

[ginnny]

I really don't know which group would suit him best and I am happy to go with the teachers judgement on that. I was surprised at how well he tackled the homework, which I would have thought was too hard for him at first glance tbh, so I assumed that he was able to cope with the work in that group.
My only problem is that they put him into the top group on Tuesday and then put him down again on Thursday. Surely that's not long enough to properly assess him is it? Its the affect on his confidence which is bothering me, not the fact that he's not in the top group.

[pinkdelight]

Sorry, this is a bit of a tangent, but do they really stream kids for maths at age nine??? My ds isn't old enough for school yet so am a bit ignorant in these matters, have only my own schooling to go on, but I thought we'd moved further away from streaming since back then, not introduced it to primary schools! Why is there even a formal sense of top, middle and bottom at this stage? Seems unnecessarily stressful for children at a formative stage.

Sorry things are extra stressful for you right now. Hope they apologise and sort it out.

[Mybox]

You think he should be in the top group so I'd go on how you feel. If he doesn't manage then you'll know in a few weeks. Some kids need the drive and push of keeping up rather than sitting tight as top of the middle group. A new experience may be just what he needs to get his speed & confidence up. Good luck.

[diddl]

From what was said, though, your son doesn´t have the ability to be in the top group-not if he isn´t fast enough.

It sounds as if he went back so full of confidence that they thought he could handle it.

[thedolly]

I was (although not primary) in a former life.

I am thinking about it more in terms of being a parent though. I had a moment last night with DD(8) over maths homework that could have ended badly. I did everything in my power to find the positive in the situation and I think it worked.

I try not to be too quick to blame the teacher as in reality you have little control over how they do things.

[scaryteacher]

For some children it's better to be the top of the middle group, rather than bottom of the top group, especially in a subject where you are not really confident. The teachers may feel this with your ds, as you obviously do.

[ginnny]

Are you a teacher TheDolly?

[thedolly]

They could just leave him there to flounder.

I am impressed at how quickly they have acted to rectify their error in judgement.

[Mybox]

Be as pushy as possible here - why put him up a group just to remove him after a week or so.

[ginnny]

Thedolly - fair point, they may have expected him to have matured more over the summer, but shouldn't they have waited to find out if he had before putting him in that group?
I'm not crying for him, I felt like crying when I saw how upset he was last night, who wouldn't feel that way when their child is so down?
I have spent all the summer holidays boosting up his self esteem and I have told him that as long as he does his best I'll be proud of him whatever he does but it feels like the school have undone all that in just over a week!