to think they really should just stop?

[GreenMonkies]

The Duggers who else? Baby #19 is on the way.....

Michelle and Jim-Bob, it's not a clown car.......

[juuule]

"The producers of the documentary wouldn't wish for it to appear any other way ."

Lol. Unless they wanted a more controversial type of show (thinking Wife Swap/Big Brother) where everyone was at each other's throats.

"that most if not all of these children will have no concept of what its like to have one to one, personal time with an adult. "

Not sure why you would think that.

[BerylCole]

Total fruitcakes. But that aside... God, her blog is dull.

[LizzyBirdsworth]

Dont quote me on this, but I recall recently reading that the Dugger's property was partially purchased through the proceeds of the Tv production company. Jim Bob also own's real estate and no longer works.

The "buddy" system troubles me and the somewhat restrictive form of dress which the females have to adhere to.

Not intending to sound too cynical, but of course their lifestyle appears idillic. The producers of the documentary wouldn't wish for it to appear any other way . I also find it a little sad, that most if not all of these children will have no concept of what its like to have one to one, personal time with an adult.

[LollipopViolet]

I personally wouldn't have that many kids (not got my first yet, not ready!) but if they're happy, then that's fine.

The thing that makes me sad is that they spend all their time together, and don't socialize all that often from what I've seen on TV. I'm not against home education either, but I think that from what I've seen, they ONLY see children with the same beliefs as them, who are from large families. I'm an only child, and yes, I would have loved a younger sibling or 2, but not that many. I wonder if they've EVER met an only child, from a different belief system to their own?

But, good luck to Michelle and I hope it goes well for her

[boundarybabe]

Sorry, it was a bit deep for Sunday morning!

I'm certainly not trying to impose my values on them (in any case perhaps they've got it bang on!), it's just that I think out of 19 children the law of averages surely states that at least one is going to take their happiness into their own hands and want to go to college and have a career, and it seems a shame to me that it might have to be a rebellion rather than a supported choice IYSWIM.

Anyway, I'm done judging now!

[expatinscotland]

'What I wonder is are they happy because they're happy, or are they happy because they believe themselves to be so?'

Is there a difference? Does it matter? Because then we get into the issue where we impose our own values on others and make the judgement that, yes, you need to do things like teh girl in the swap to be happy.

Because with all that fun she had in NYC, bet she didn't have to face a lot of pitfalls that could make a person very unhappy during that week there.

If one's happy one is happy.

Should we say that teens in Africa where my landlords are just now, who grow up working on farms as well, need to come to the big city to see what they're missing, otherwise they're not truly happy? That they're not happy until they've seen what it's like to have a flat screen TV, iPhones, and watch Skins to see what being a 'normal' teen is about?

Then you get into the type of setting where you really do impose your own value judgements on other peoples' lives because you think that's what's best for them.

And if that's not Pandora's box I don't know what is.

[juuule]

"What I wonder is are they happy because they're happy, or are they happy because they believe themselves to be so?"

Ooooh that's a bit deep.

Surely if we're happy, then we're happy(even if it is only because we think we are )

It's possible there might be certain lifestyles that my children would prefer over their own if they were given the chance.
Possibly true for lots of other children, too.
But hopefully once they become adults they can follow their own inclinations.

Then again, perhaps they like their lives and their family.

[boundarybabe]

What I wonder is are they happy because they're happy, or are they happy because they believe themselves to be so?

I remember watching a show a few years ago where american teens swapped places for the week. One girl was saying how much she loved her life - she lived on a chicken farm in Arkansas - nothing wrong with that of course but her daily life was rather dismal from an outsider's point of view - one of her chores was to check the barn in the morning and pick up any chickens that had died in the night. She seemed happy enough though and was anice girl. But once she'd spent a week doing more 'teen' things she was genuinely crying because she realised she wasn't happy at all - she just didn't know any different. IIRC she had spent the week in New York and when she said how much she'd loved it and that she'd like to go to university there her parents basically said 'but who will help run the farm?'. I felt so for her that she seemed to see this future that she didn't want and had to escape from.

Of course there's no wrong or right way to raise children or live your life. But I do wonder how differently the Duggar children would view their lot if they were exposed to other children at school.

[juuule]

Agree with Expat's posts.

Greenmonkies - "Duggar mini-moms who have no childhood and spend their whole day looking after their younger siblings."

From the "shows" that I watched, that's not how it looked to me. They seem to have a great childhood. Particularly the one where they went travelling across America on a bus.

[expatinscotland]

I agree the fundamentalist aspect is something I'm not altogether comfortable with, especially as I am American by birth and have seen some effects of prevalent fundamentalism which are not altogether compatible with not just separation of church and state but also with the frame of democracy laid down in the Constitution, although of course the Constitution is open to interpretation and amendment.

But as far as with just the number of children they have then I can't say I am much bothered because they are well-looked after and cared for and seem happy.

[GreenMonkies]

Expat, I think you have a point, but the Duggar household is the opposite extreme to the "typical" insular western household, but there is a happy medium between pampered singleton kids and the Duggar mini-moms who have no childhood and spend their whole day looking after their younger siblings.

[expatinscotland]

Private space and time to oneself, however, are relatively recent luxuries in Western history.

And even in other developed nations, they're not seen as common or natural.

We had an exchange student from Japan live with us for a year, for example, and she always had to share a room with her brother.

I have several friends from New York City who shared a room with one or more siblings of the opposite sex with a sheet down the middle of the room as a divider.

And it can be argued that perhaps such luxuries are not entirely good things.

It can be argued that it's perhaps made for a couple of generations of people who have more self-absored, immature and selfish members. Spend any time in the relationships section and it does give pause to wonder.

In most other countries outside the West, older children looking after siblings and other family members and/or working to contribute to the family's survival are seen as anything but unnatural or uncommon.

[juuule]

"they're so polite and perfect and rehearsed "

But as you've pointed out, it's for their 'show'. Perhaps they're a bit less than perfect once the cameras have left. Who knows. We only see what we are shown, I suppose.

[anonacfr]

Juuule maybe they do- but IMO there's such a thing as overkill.

Nothing unusual in sharing a room true, but sharing a room with 10 other girls of varying ages? While being homeschooled and attending a church in their own home run by their own father?
Downtime (when they're not too busy cooking or cleaning or looking after babies) is playing with their siblings?

I find that claustrophobic and unnatural personally.

Have you seen the show? It's just freaky IMO. Those kids are like Stepford children- they're so polite and perfect and rehearsed that it scares me. They're like Stepford children...

[juuule]

"they like spending all their time together. "

Maybe they do and they all decided to go open plan together.

As for sharing bedrooms and bathrooms, children in lots of families have to do that. Nothing unusual in that.

[anonacfr]

Have you watched the show? The boys have a bit more free time but the girls dress alike, spend their time either doing chores, looking after babies, or practising the same musical instrument.
They share the same room and the same bathroom.

As I said, not much room for private space. I remember when they screened the episode about building the house, they showed that the ground floor was one big open room because in the mother's words, they like spending all their time together.

[juuule]

How do you know they don't get any private space?

No need for curriculum dolls for the Duggars. They get to know what looking after a baby is like for real.

[anonacfr]

Boundarybabe, they use a buddy system with the babies.
Effectively the older daughters raise the babies, do the cooking and the cleaning and their brothers look after older children.

They also have a roster for their 'mummy time'-

I don't think it's fair at all.

Someone's already mentioned that the kids sleep in a boy and girl dormitory. These girls are effectively turned into mothers and homemakers before they even hit puberty, and don't get any private space AT ALL.

[boundarybabe]

Out of curiosity I looked on their website and had a nose at the photos. What really struck me was their last baby, as a newborn, was only phtographed once with the parents - being handed to their (eldest?) daughter. Every photo thereafter of that baby was of her being carried in the sling by her big sister. How is that fair on the older daughter? That isn't helping out, that's parenting and if she hasn't become a mum through choice why should she have to act as one at her young age?

[anonacfr]

What I find shocking is the attitude of their eldest son.
He's 21 and his new bride is expecting their first baby. She found out she was pregnant on national TV. She took a pregnancy test at home and her lovely husband didn't tell her whether it was positive or negative until he had a camera rolling and it could be filmed for their TV show. He also shared her 1st ultrasound with the nation.

Prior to that they exchanged their first ever kiss (both weren't allowed to spend time unchaperonned until they were engaged) on TV.

The family was on morning TV in the States a few days ago to announce the new pregnancy (Michelle Duggar isn't even 3 months along yet). When the TV presenter asked the eldest son about his baby, he spoke about having more babies and 'training' them.... Not much emphasis on individuals in this family as far as I can tell.

I personally find them disturbing because in their own way, they're complete famewhores.
They share their intimate life with the world at every opportunity, and Michelle Duggar even mentioned that her kids monitor her cycle to find out when she's next going to be pregnant....
It's like popping out kids has become their meal ticket- they're getting TONS of money (not to mention a free house with an interior designer from NYC sent in specially to decorate it- I saw the show on TV!) from making babies...

[bronze]

First thing that struck me was they've caught up to this century

[bronze]

I do wonder how they afford it. I know real estate is cheaper there and they did a large whack of the work themselves but still...
from what I've seen of the program he doesn't work ridicuously long hours so what does he do to earn enough to provide for them all

[juuule]

Agree, pooexplosions.

[pooexplosions]

I don't see why so many have strong opinions on these people? They are self sufficient, look after themselves, the children seem fairly educated and all play musical instruments, they are healthy and happy. There are far, far worse ways to live than in a large, warm house with lots of siblings and plenty of food and space.
Why are you bothered about the state of her uterus if she isn't? Talk about so not anyone's business......

Its not a lifestyle I would choose, thats for sure, or a belief system that I could subscribe too. But then neither is 5 kids on benefits in a council house, but if anyone starts a thread slagging that off they get royally flamed and run out of town (which I'm fine with but) total double standards.

Leave them alone!

[oneofmany]

I have namechanged for this as I am revealing very personal information.

I have ten siblings and grew up in a small town where everyone knew who we were because of being part of such a large family. Although I love my brothers and sisters and would be lost without any one of them I hated being different growing up. I can't imagine what life is like for the Duggars being constantly in the public eye.

For some reason some people think if you are part of a large family it gives them free rein to say whatever they like to you. I hated the 'must have had no TV' comments we always got. It would never occur to me to say to an only child 'Your parents must not be having a lot of sex'

It was my parent's decision to have a large family. They both came from large families themselves and it was something they agreed on from the start but it has not been an easy life.

We were not well off and although we are definitely all loved as individuals my parents did struggle to 'parent' because so much time was taken up by just getting us up in the morning, dressed, fed, off to school etc. to concentrate on everyone's seperate talents or interests.

I think it is everyone's right to have the number of children they want but it wouldn't be my choice to have such a large family myself.