to want to get a mortgage and buy 'our' house?

[debs40]

We've just come back from a week away to find we've been given notice to quit on our home.

We have lived here for 6 years and had both of our children here.

We have been renting for so long because property prices here are mental.We have a deposit saved but it will only work out as about 15% against current prices.

The landlords say they are being posted abroad (they're in the forces)but want to keep their base in the UK for weekend visits and for their au pair! Bless. Their children are in a local boarding school.

They have offered to sell privately at a fairly reasonable price but I'm not sure we can raise a mortgage in this climate. This has all come out of the blue and the letting agents mentioned nothing about them wanting to sell. I'm just not sure I trust them.

DH got made redundant about 18 months ago but has been running his own IT business since and although it's always a case of short term contracts, they seem fairly consistently available and well-paid.

One added problem is that the fields at the back of the estate we live on are about to become a housing estate which has caused a glut of local houses to come on the market.

Our house is a bit dated and needs a bit of work but we are so used to it and it is near the local school etc. DS 2 will start there next year.

What would you do? Try and buy the house or chance renting until the market stabilises?

[debs40]

I've spent all this week looking at houses and trying to sort things out in my head!

It seems the market is slow here. Two of the houses I've seen at 299k on the market would definitely accept around 275.

Trouble is, in one way that makes things more promising as prices have clearly dropped. On the other, what if they're still falling?

I had had no intention of trying to buy this year. The global economy has gone tits up and who knows what is round the corner with mortgage lending.

Friends here say that things are starting to get better but I am so not sure!

Should we just stick to renting?

The landlords had this place valued by an independet estate agent (not the letting agent) the other day but haven't said what figure he came up with.

I have a surveyor doing a valuation on Friday for 180 plus VAT but I just don't know if it's going to make any difference.

More am I going demented than AIBU?

[Sorrento]

[sybilfaulty]

Sorrento, thank you SO much for the fabby dresses. One worn to her birthday party yest and the other worn as soon as it arrived! THanks so much.

[debs40]

That's a great idea too lalalonglegs. Much appreciated!

[lalalonglegs]

You could ask an independent valuations surveyor most of whom will work on a freelance/contract basis for banks/building socs wishing to value properties in their area. Would probably cost a couple of hundred quid but would be considered "true" value (or as near as possible to what is a current, accurate market worth).

Good luck.

[debs40]

You are a star . I shall do that tomorrow!!

[ABetaDad]

debs40 - if you apply for mortgage and go through the application process the bank/BS will demand a valuation for their own purposes. They will want to make sure the house is worth a certain percentage more than the mortgage they are offering you

A lot of valuers working for banks/BS now are deliberately down valuing to take account of future price drops and banks/BS are also demanding bigger deposits.

Maybe if you went to the bank/BS and asked what kind of mortgage amount they would be prepared to offer on the specific house you have in mind they might be willing to do the valuation (for a fee) and then give you that morgage offer plus the valuation figure in a written form that you could show the vendor.

It is definitely worth talking the bank/BS first and tell them the house you plan to buy and the askng price and see if they will do a valuation.

[debs40]

Thanks guys.

ABetaDad - do you know the best way to get a proper valuation? Is it to ask the bank we are getting the mortgage through? Or approach a local valuer independently?

[Sorrento]

These landlords can't loose can they, they bought a longtime ago in a very let - able house and if they sell now they can sit back (abroad in the sunshine) and watch prices drop waiting for the right time to buy back into the UK when prices bottom out.
Don't be the sucker that funds their good luck.
This is a business transaction, emotion has no place in house buying.

[ABetaDad]

debs40 - I agree with alicet, indeed, I would ask for a valuation survey from your mortgage company. It might cost a few quid in fees but at least you know what lender might be willing to lend then and on what basis. Then, if it is acceptable to you, use that as a basis for discussion with the vendor.

At the moment house prices are really being determned by what the banks are willing to lend. I kow that many banks are privately pencilling in a 40% peak-trough house price drop for their own internal discussions even if publicly they are saying the housing market has stabilised.

If you use the vendor's agent value they will produce a high 'asking price' valuation not a true 'market/lender' valuation.

[alicet]

I would arrange a valuation yourself, from an agent that they have not asked on a 'forced sale' basis. Choose an estate agent with reputation for lower valuations. Get it in writing. Then you will have something to bargain with!

Good move to look at other comparable properties for sale in the area too - who knows you might actually find something better! And make sure the landlord knows you are looking too

[debs40]

I told landlords this afternoon that we wouldn't buy at the price offered but would consider an independent valuation.

They have just got back to me to say they will instruct letting agents to do one.

Looks like they do want to sell after all and were hoping we would just bite their hand off

[debs40]

Thanks. I know you are all right!

We will look into mortgages and I also went to see a house on sale/rent today but they only want to rent for 6 months because they can't sell. Don't want to end up in same position.

Have asked to view two more local properties next week.

Just got the feeling the landlords are trying to force a sale on this one!

It is soooo hard to contemplate moving within two months though!

[lalalonglegs]

It would be very convenient for you to stay put but the price is daft. Don't be angry - just get somewhere better

[LIZS]

How long notice do you have ?

[MuffinBaker]

I think you should look into the mortgage situation. Having a 15% deposit will be hugely in your favour.

I don't think you should by this house though.

[LIZS]

I thought it was for all properties with rent collected via agencies tbh - but we were abroad at the time and had to sign a form to receive the rent gross of tax deductions then later submit a return to pay any tax due.

[debs40]

Thanks. It is a managed property. It probably has no bearing on anything - just me being annoyed at them

[lalalonglegs]

Our agents certainly don't deduct tax and they are very well-known and (relatively) reputable firms. Are you sure about that LIZS or is it just for managed properties?

[LIZS]

Mortgage lender consent and any title or covenant restrictions don't necessarily contradict each other. It isn't up to the lender to look in that and most aren't enforceable if it is freehold. The agency would have told IR - they are mandated to make relevant tax deductions from the rent you pay before passing the net value on to the landlord and account for it. It is then up to the landlord to submit a tax return to claim back any overpayment due ot expenses etc

[lalalonglegs]

They definitely sound as if they are dodging around and not very trustworthy - but I'm not sure it has much bearing on whether you can beat down their house price or not.

[debs40]

I don't know if this adds anything to this saga, but I was just looking at the Land Registry details for our house and I noticed that there is a Restriction on the property title registered in 2005 against leasing without consent.

I know the landlords got a new mortgage 3/4 years ago and the letters all came here to be forwarded on. They had not told the mortgage company they were leasing the property. Given the Restriction on the property I doubt they have done so since.

If they've not got consent to lease, I would doubt they are telling the taxman.

[debs40]

Thanks. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts. Lots of sensible advice from ABetaDad and Lala too.

We do live in an odd area. It is a modern estate at the edges of the town and it is very popular because of good local school and officers from local bases buying to let while being paid to live somewhere else.

Big 4 bed houses seem popular and one three doors away sold for 295 in December and a friend who looked round it said it was 'orrible

Letting agent told me today that market had gone down 10-15% in last year. He doesn't know anything about offer to sell but seemed sceptical of reasons provided.

Lots to think about...thanks guys!

[ABetaDad]

debs40 - Houses are selling right now at 25% below the peak of August 2007. That is what Estate Agents are fairly openly talking about between each other in the trade.

That is a fair indication of where your offer should be if it were not for the fact that there is going to be building work behind the house with the new estate andit sounds like the hosue needs some work as well. Take at least a further 10% off for that. Look at what nearby houses sold for in the street around August 2007 and work back from there.

I suspect the vendor IS hoping you will over pay or not know about the estate being built and will definitley not sell it to you for any less than what they think the market will give them. I do not believe their story about not really wanting to sell. Why are they offering to sell it to you then?

They are probably just hoping that you wil pay up to avoid the inconvenience of moving. They are undoubtedly worried about the falling market though.

Of the top of my head I suspect that no one will pay more than £250k anyway in the current market because of stamp duty levels.

I suspect that they would turn down a £250k offer and I do not think you will miss out by renting a bit longer elsewhere since your DH job is not that secure in the current environment.

[lalalonglegs]

Sorry, don't pay £280k either but rest of advice stands: it sounds very overpriced and, unfortunately, there is no real way of tugging the price down. A 15% deposit should get you a reasonable mortgage deal but, tbh, if asking prices are unrealistic, there will probably be no harm in waiting a while and building up an even bigger deposit.

Good luck.