to think this lady shouldn't have her baby? (sorry long one)

[gemdangracie]

AIBU? A lady I know is 13 weeks pregnant and she has 2 dc already one is nearly 4 and the other is 1.

She is dealing with social services as they suspected she was hitting her dc's (I witnessed this twice and reported it.) Her partner is a cocaine addict and frequently smokes weed.

Her and her partner have learning disabilities and her eldest dc has learning disabilities and they just cant cope as they dont get the support they need.

Social services already visit them twice a week for various things and have told them that if she goes ahead with the pregnancy then they will take all the dc off of them when this one is born.

Every friday she comes around to my house expecting lunch and dinner (but I can't not feed them as she never brings food for the dc's as she says she has no money and I can't see them starve) telling me she wants to buy all these double buggies that she really cant afford and the dc's have new clothes twice a month.

Do you think that she is being selfish by having this baby knowing that social will take them off her or should she enjoy the two she has until they can cope bettr than they are now?

AIBU?

[gingerninja]

wahwah, this happened 20 years ago so i don't know if things were different then. Whilst the ultimate decision for adoption was made by a judge and we were allowed to adopt my sister, the decision to remove her siblings into other foster care (prior) to adoption was made by social services. I can't give the detail away but certainly in our case, it was not straight forward and this is because my parents did not agree with the social workers decisions on the best care for the children. (My parents had fostered them all for many years and understood their needs far better than a social worker who visited once in a blue moon) Unfortunately I have a deep mistrust of SS because of this incident and because of the way a friend was treated through the adoption process.

Sorry for deviating away from the topic

[LIZS]

Agree lisa/romy - I wondered if the fact that the op perceives dyslexia as the learning difficulty here, rather than one element of it, wasn't an indicator of how she really doesn't have the full picture , just what she has been told/observed. Typically people may listen but only hear selectively then in turn communicate only part of the story especially when on the defensive.

[wahwah]

Gingerninja, I am sorry that your sister was separated from her siblings, but in the interests of anyone who isn't sure about how much power Social Workers have, these big decisions are made in a court arena with all parties (and that includes the child) having legal representation and often with expert advice sought for matters such as specific placement matters. The judge / magistrates ultimately decide.

[Romy7]

i almost typed 'what is she going to do, write to the baby?', but then realised it wasn't a troll and probably just an irrelevant point that was raised in a panic
get thee to ss.

[lisad123]

well Im done for then with me being dyslexic! It wasnt aimed at you romy, just seen it a few times on the thread

[Romy7]

lisa - i realise that from the posts, i was just slightly surprised that having listed the lady's problems (and me replying in light of the need for much additional support) that the OP then described the ld as 'severe dyslexia'... i did a check for a troll... it was the OP that said dyslexia, not me!!!

[lisad123]

just to say when they say about an adult with learning disability we arent talking about severe dyslexia or problems with reding writing etc. They are talking about an adult with a low IQ score. This really does effect how people learn, what the remember and things that we find common sense. I worked with a woman who had to have pictures to remind her how to make bottles up, and she had to be reminded about feeding the baby, so had to write feed times down. However, if they baby gotr hungry before next feed was due she would make the baby wait till it was time, as she couldnt get past the times she had set.
Someone said the SS wont give you a full picture and their right they wont. You also might want toconsider that your friend may only hear whathe wants to hear, or not get the full picture. HTH

[gingerninja]

What a terribly sad situation. My adopted sister was the third child of a family that was split up because the parents had learning difficulties. The other siblings being adopted elsewhere. Now she is a woman and also has learning difficulties herself I feel a deep sense of anxiety over her future when I hear stories like this. I would defend her right to have children if she wanted but I think people like this need extra support in their own home to cope. Most people without learning disabilities struggle raising a family.

IME social services do not always consider the best thing for the child. Giving away too much information here would identify me but needless to say splitting my adopted sister and her siblings was not done in the interest of the children but by a social worker with an agenda.

Not really knowing enough about the case to make a judgement but it feels wrong somehow.

[Romy7]

gem - sorry, i went to bed. just remember that you weren't at any of the meetings between ss and the family, you don't really know what was said, and the sw will not have given you the full story. i really do think you need to concentrate on looking for practical support for her at this time (through ss or the family centre worker) and maintaining your distance. you can't do anything more, and you certainly should not, at this point in your life, consider adopting a child in this manner, because you feel sorry for the mother. what on earth does your dp say?
anyone can advocate for her - she can use professional advocacy, or support worker, or just someone sensible to make sure that anything agreed at meetings is written down and that all the necessary questions are asked. i don't hink you should volunteer for this role tbh. it needs someone with experience in working with adults with learning difficulties, and would further confuse your 'friendship'.

[wahwah]

No Social Worker would tell a woman to terminate a pregnancy. I can only imagine that this is her perception of her choices.

[LIZS]

Think you need advice for SS as to what you can safely do to support her and where you must draw the line. tbh if you get too involved it may muddy the waters for any action they need to take. You cannot just offer to adopt her child for example. There are legal procedures and criteria for SS to obtain both a care order and process an adoption and lots of approved people already waiting for young babies. SS are under no obligation to share the extent of theri knowledge with you so you may find you have a less than full picture of what is going on although they may still find your input helpful.

Where is her partner in all this ? You mention his Learning Difficulties as well as hers and the risk the children are at , but to me even severe dyslexia and/or drug abuse does not necessarily equate to this inthe grand scheme of life. If, for example, he is deemed to be the more volatile there may come a time when she is given a stark choice before any process to remove the children commences.

[lou031205]

So, they are saying, in a nutshell, that the baby should be killed because it causes a problem? Outrageous, in my honest opinion.

People that have limited social skills for life need support to make the best of it. She needs someone to teach her how to care for her children apppropriately. Even people with severe learning difficulties can learn what may come instinctively and naturally to some.

Oh, and YABU in my opinion.

[Guitargirl]

I am pretty shocked that social services have said that to her, that they are going to remove her children if she does not terminate her pregnancy...!?! If the situation is so bad then why are they waiting until her new baby is born before removing the other two children? It doesn't make sense.

She needs an advocate and one who works with adults with learning difficulties.

[gemdangracie]

nappyaddict- they have already told her that they wanted to take her 2 dc's off her (abusing them and strugling to look after them properly) they have told her that having the baby is going to make her situation alot worse and are worried about the dc's safety.

[nappyaddict]

i don't really understand why they have to take all of the children away if she has the baby. up until now she has been ok to look after 2 children but if she has a 3rd she suddenly can't look after any?

[GothMummy]

I think she is going to need (more?) support with this new baby, things are definately not right in the family by the sounds of it. If she does have learning difficulties (what sort? Do you know the specific nature) she may be unable to make plans about the future based on prior experience. I dont even know what to say about drugs being involved in the situation, its all very sad.

You did the right thing to report any suspected child abuse by the way.

I think you need to step away from the situation though as it sounds like you are getting very deeply involved.... I know you care about the children though so its tricky.

[lisad123]

she properly does work for the CC, but here we have family centres too, that work for SS.
I think you need to consider how much impact this has on your own family and your own children. Its hard and if you feel your able to be there for her, by all means do.
Just be prepared that they may ask for your details if they go for removal
having worked with families with parents with LD its hard as its not their fault, and there is very little that they are able to change in such a small amount of time. the other thing is the children are more at risk the younger they are.

[gemdangracie]

i didint know that I thought that the family support worker was from the cc we go to as she always seems to be there every session and has the centres id badge on?!

lisa- from your opinion do you think that I am too involved in this or am I ok in being "there" for her when she needs to talk?
I just dont know what to do I feel sad for the family

[lisad123]

also could request a worker from adults with disabilites team

[UniversallyChallenged]

Most towns have an advocate society run by volunteers who are there on behalf of say a deaf lady who cant explain her needs and the advocate will organise care meetings/family support/ parental guidance - whatever the need is.

They are usually in phone book or google one in your area.

At work we find them priceless and a great go between SS and the person- SS can be a little scarey for some people

[lisad123]

hmm intresting, we have 2 types of family support workers here. Ones from Childrens centre and one from social services. TBH the ones from social services should eb able to offer more indepth support than a CC one. Just my opinion, having done both.

[TotalChaos]

having had a quick google, this site may be of interest to you and to the parents:-

www.bristol.ac.uk/norahfry/right-support/parentsinfo.html

[gemdangracie]

local childrens centre is where we go for a toddler group twice a week its them who is providing the family support worker.

[Onestonetogo]

Message withdrawn

[lisad123]

check local childrens centre, they often have support classes on