When to put an old dog down……

[CultOfRamen]

We have an older dog, not sure how old as she’s a rescue but probably at least 12, small terrier mix.
despite her age up until a few days very active, still coming on short slow runs with me, walks every day, throws herself with gusto at the postman next doors lawn mower etc and jumps up on furniture, bright and engaging.

a couple of days ago, she just refused to stand up in the morning. Shaking and sad.

trip to the emergency vet, £600 in various tests a couple of possible diagnosis but vet is really unsure. She has stopped eating (second day of no food) and has stopped drinking water today, am trying to keep her hydrated using a syringe. Hasn’t been to the toilet all day.

glassyeyed and mostly sleeping. Not moving very much at all and doesn’t respond at all. It’s pretty heartbreaking.

the vet gave her a huge dose of antibiotics and a an IV and she is on pain meds (although doesn’t appear to be i pain) more antibiotics and anti nausea tablets. It’s been about 30 hours since she started tablets but she is not improving, if anything she is more lethargic and like I said now stopped drinking water.

I think she needs to back to the vet today. However I know this will result in more suggestions of tests and ultimately the tests yesterday showed some concerning kidney and liver issues that the vet said are likely unreversible and may be further impacted by the meds she’s on. I really think it’s time to discuss euthanasia. Sadly we’re just not in a financial position to run a vet bill into the thousands, we’ve recently had some other emergency stuff pop up and our savings are very thin.

however my partner (his dog, he found her in a park, before we met, where she had been beaten and tied to a post and he took her home and they are inseparable since) says she is fine, she is just under the weather and fighting off a minor infection. She will be right as rain in a day or two.

over the years I’ve had many female friends that have struggled with their male partners accepting a dogs time to die and clinging on to sick and unhappy animals. I’ve observed many arguments between couples about when to say good bye to a dog.

I do feel like perhaps it’s a bit early to call as she’s only been like this for three days but also I can’t bear that she might be suffering.

at the moment I’m deferring to his judgment because ultimately she’s his dog, but I’m unsure at what point I need to go into bat for her, which I predict will cause a big issue between us.

AIBU - give it a couple of days, dogs can go for a couple of days with no food or drinking by themselves

NBU - you need to say goodbye to the dog

thouhtd on whether it’s a man thing to ignore the glaringly obvious when it comes to dogs health?

Better a week early than a day too late. My vet said to me that most people leave it too late in reality as they don't want to let go, was the hardest thing I've had to do for my lovely old boy Merlin but the best thing for him, he was a lovely soul. Old English sheepdog 13 years old. We had him pts at home so he was all chilled and relaxed.

It does seem strange that she was totally fine 3 days ago, seems like something sudden rather than a slow decline. I'd have another trip to the vets personally, is she not insured? One more trip then reassess I reckon. I say this as someone who seriously considered putting my dog to sleep a few years ago when she was ill, so glad I didn't as she recovered. My dog is also very old.

When my dog was unwell I used a syringe to give her little amounts of water regularly, it really made a difference because dehydration will be making things worse. Could be worth a try?

Sorry OP just seen you are doing the syringe thing.

It's really hard but with mine I based it on his quality of life, is she in pain? You said she doesn't appear to be, if she's just sleeping then I'd keep getting water into her and then leave her be and monitor her.
There is a section called the Dog House in Pets if you have a look in there this subject is regularly discussed.

She’s not insured because pet insurance here is obscene and everyone we know who’s ever had it has pretty much found their pets condition to be excluded for one reason or another……

the vet has ruled out any common issues, lepto, paralysis tick, parvo, snake bite, cane toad, they even said they were surprised by the blood tests, seemingly normal ranges for most things except the liver and kidney, but they suspected lepto for that and rested again and it was negative.

@CultOfRamen

prrsonally I'd keep syringing water into her and offering her high value food.

then see her regular vet as soon as possible.

i think given how quick the change in her was it's more likely to be 'something wrong with her' that can be treated than pts time.

but her regular vet will be much better placed to make that call.

They're such a worry, especially as they get older. All the vets I've been to over the years have usually been very good at hinting/saying it outright that it's probably time. Have they looked at pancreatitis?

Had something similar either our 17 year old cat. One day she just stopped eating - barely moved - slept all day and seemed very out of it. Took her to the vet who gave her anti nausea meds and antibiotic injection that lasts two weeks. The vet took blood too. Told us to take her home and offer her water and small amounts of food. I honestly thought she would die overnight. She didn't and slowly bounced back. The vet called with the blood results and said for a 17 year old cat she is in perfect health. No signs of any issues. No idea what caused the three days of near death behaviour but she has been normal since then.
Maybe he is just feeling under the weather. Keep up the water and be guided by the vet.
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Id go with the vets advice. If they're telling you it's time to pts then that's the right thing.

If not then id watch and wait.

I was dealing with a dog with cancer, and in spite of extended treatment, I knew that I would soon have to make that decision. In my case, the vet said that a good indicator that the time had come when doggo no longer gave me an exuberant greeting, and in fact, didn't seem pleased to see me.

Letting them go is the last act of true love.
If she's not eating drinking or toileting then I think it's time. She's given up and her body is shutting down. You don't need to know the cause to see the effect.

I think I'd be a bit annoyed at having spent £600 for the vet to have no idea about what's going on!

Mind you, you did say the emergency vet which probably bumped the price up.

I would have a frank discussion with the vet today, ask them what else they can do to get you some definitive answers and how much it's going to cost and go from there.

My husband was also very reluctant to PTS our dog, it caused huge arguments so I'm sorry you're going through that.

Did the vet check her anal glands? My first dog went from being happy and bouncy to shaking and refusing to stand up within seconds. Carried her to vet immediately as I was so scared for her. The first thing vet checked was her anal glands which were full. As soon as he emptied them, my girl was so happy that she wouldn't stop licking vets face. I'm not saying that this is what's wrong with your dog but it's certainly worth checking. Full impacted anal glands are very painful and can become a serious problem if left untreated.

Just keep syringing water every couple of hours. Offer boiled and chopped chicken. Get anal glands checked at the vets. I'd give the dog 3-4 more days provided it wasn't in pain.

My 13 yo boy went suddenly like this over a couple of days.
We took to vet and he said it was time, so we PTS there and then with us present.

It's heartbreaking but absolutely the right thing to do.

(I knew it was time the night before, but DH was in denial. )

I think back to the vets and have a very honest conversation with them and your partner. It might be something reversible but the fact the antibiotics haven't helped and your dog isn't eating, drinking, toileting or moving isn't a great sign. I think your partner might be in denial if they think it's just a minor infection. I think letting a pet go at the right time for them is part of the responsibilities of being a good owner and agree with better a day/week too early than a day too late saying. But I'm also aware that it's easy saying that looking at my well (also elderly) dog rather than being in the actual situation when emotions come in to it.

Sorry you are going through this OP, I would recommend sooner rather than later.
My 3.5 year old dog went like this last week. She stopped eating and drinking, barley moved, and when she did she looked like she was struggling to have the strength. Her kidney values were through the roof and She spent almost a week at the animal hospital on an IV for hydration trying to bring the values down. We had to have her put to sleep on Tuesday after they diagnosed advanced kidney disease and said there was no way she would improve or survive without the IV for longer than a couple of days.
Do you know what the blood results were for the kidneys? I loved my dog and miss her but tbh, I wish I had made the decision to have her PTS sooner

I'm sorry for your loss, that must've been an awful shock especially with it being a young dog.

Thank you. It was horrible, and definetly not expected given her age and the way she changed over night, but unfortunately it was something they believe was hereditary so it was going to happen sooner or later

Did they check for intestinal blockage? I would say give it a bit more time for DH. He has to make the decision or he may resent you for it later on. If her quality of live hasnt improved in a week, I would have a joint discussion with the regular vet about putting her down. At least that way it isn't "you" making the decision, but a group decision about what's best for her.

that decision is one only your partner can make, and for you to say your bit once and that’s it. Once.

we have an old dog, who would have been put down at 5 if there was no insurance, and every few years, he’s been back at the vets with a thousand or two. He is now 13 and probably over £10,000 has being paid out by insurance.

a few weeks ago, same as yourself, do we spend the money (no insurance now) or pts.

we spent £1,400 this time.

he is always very happy to see us, tail wagging so hard the other day he took out the teapot and two mugs, the milk jug survived - he’s a lot slower than he was, but he’s old.

with the cat he was about 23, he stopped eating, couldn’t be bothered to move to go to the toilet, and the vet said “it’s time”. We went with the vet’s opinion and the cat didn't fight at all which was, strangely, extremely reassuring.

I hope your dog is just having a good rest and he will be back on normal dog duty very soon.

I’m sorry if this came accross as me, me, me, but deep down your partner will know when it’s time, and if the dog isn’t sleeping in its own “waste” perhaps it’s not quite time yet.

So sorry you are going through this. We had to have our family dog PTS in Oct, she was 14 and had ongoing health issues, in the end she was also uninsured as the premiums were extortionate.
I know what you are going through as although she was a family pet she always saw my DH as alpha and he adored her. I knew it was time to say goodbye but he took a little more convincing.
Only you can judge her quality of life and I've also heard that dogs will do their best to mask their pain because they want to please you, which may explain her sudden decline, there has maybe been something underlying going on for a while.
On reflection I wish we'd let our dog go sooner rather than later.

I don’t know if I can wait till she’s sleeping in her own waste, I feel like that would be definitely left it too late, I know she’s a dog but I want her to have her dignity she has never once had an accident in the house I feel like she would be so upset if that happened.

she is my partners dog they are so bonded but she’s been with me and my daughter for the last eight years too, particularly my daughter who was four when she joined our family, so I guess it’s the classic case if it’s his decision till I think it’s the wrong decision 🤣

she just looks so unbelievably sad. No tail wag happening at all 😞

There are no words. xxxxx

I am so sorry. It does sound like time.
(I am keeping an eye on my old girl, who has an inoperable tumour. Once eating and drinking, pooing and wagging are going or gone…😢)