To say people are totally over reacting about the fuel issue

[TikTokNutcases]

People adamant they can't go to work, so get a train.

Ride a bicycle.

Use the bus.

Talk of closing schools for god sake, whatever next.

It's ridiculous that people rely so heavily on the use of their car that life appears to stop still when they can't drive it.

You don't see this type of hysteria among non drivers, ever.

I don't drive and never have. I've never flapped like this about not being able to go to the supermarket, work etc.

[FanGirlX]

Living rurally isn't the excuse you think it is. Living rurally is an option when you can drive and have ready access to a car.

So people who grow up rurally should move to cities as soon as they are able and give up their local jobs in agriculture, as carers, police, teachers? Who should do these jobs instead? Or should we just abandon huge parts of the country and cram people into cities?

[TuftyMarmoset]

@fangirlx It simply isn't true that only London has good public transport. I live in a town and there are excellent buses here. We can't afford for me to run a car which means we can't afford to move more rurally which is what DP wants. I'm not saying that people who live rurally should give up their cars or move, what I'm saying is that actually some people can't afford them and by extension a lifestyle that requires one.

[icedcoffees]

It is a luxury. You might not view it as one, but it's an expensive asset that not everyone is able to afford.

It's often much, much cheaper to own and run a car than it is to ferry a family around using a mixture of bike, taxi, bus and train, though.

We have no bus station, a train line that only goes in one direction and no taxis unless you book weeks/months in advance (and you won't get one at all during rush hour).

It is much, much more convenient (and cheaper) to run a car than it is to try and get around on the train.

My old commute to work was a great example. £35 worth of petrol got me to and from work each week - a journey of around 45 minutes each way. To do the same journey by public transport would take at least three HOURS each way, and would cost £40 per person, per day.

I remember googling it once when my car was in the garage - it would have involved getting up for work at 5am, I'd then have arrived for work over an hour late, and would have needed to leave again two hours later in order to arrive back home on the same day

[JoborPlay]

[quote TuftyMarmoset]@fangirlx It simply isn't true that only London has good public transport. I live in a town and there are excellent buses here. We can't afford for me to run a car which means we can't afford to move more rurally which is what DP wants. I'm not saying that people who live rurally should give up their cars or move, what I'm saying is that actually some people can't afford them and by extension a lifestyle that requires one.[/quote]
But even in places with good public transport, it can still be a nightmare to use. I live in greater Manchester and if you want to go to or from the city centre, the public transport is brilliant, but want to go round the outskirts and it's dreadful.

[JoborPlay]

[quote TuftyMarmoset]@fangirlx It simply isn't true that only London has good public transport. I live in a town and there are excellent buses here. We can't afford for me to run a car which means we can't afford to move more rurally which is what DP wants. I'm not saying that people who live rurally should give up their cars or move, what I'm saying is that actually some people can't afford them and by extension a lifestyle that requires one.[/quote]
And the public transport near me would cost me more than double the cost of running my car!

[icedcoffees]

@TuftyMarmoset

That doesn't make it not a luxury *@FanGirlX*. If anything it makes living rurally a luxury. If you couldn't afford a car or had a disability that meant you couldn't drive then you wouldn't be able to live in that place.

Many people who can't afford cars or who have disabilities live rurally, and do you know what? They struggle. Massively.

Public transport costs mean it's out of reach for many (especially families) so their lives are very limited.

They can't afford to move to the nearest town, either, because their rent/mortgage would nearly double. Rural poverty is a real issue for many people.

[FanGirlX]

I live in greater Manchester and if you want to go to or from the city centre, the public transport is brilliant, but want to go round the outskirts and it's dreadful.

I agree and Manchester is a major city.

[Stellaris22]

I think a very key point is being missed here by a lot of people.

Imagine being on a strict budget and barely making ends meet. How do you then afford driving lessons, insurance, the purchase of a car. You can't. Saying 'public transport' is expensive isn't the answer. Public transport is the ONLY option to a lot of people and saving for a car WHILST HAVING to use public transport isn't possible.

Having access to a car yourself and the luxury of affording lessons doesn't equal people relying on public transport (and living in urban areas) as being rich or privileged.

[tabulahrasa]

“you're over complicating the difference between a company van for a plumber and a family saloon car, for no actual reason”

I’m not - I’m pointing out that the company van for the plumber often doubles up as a family car... and in fact I know trades people who use an estate car instead and just take their tools out as well.

Because some people seem to think no fuel just means, find another way to take kids to school or commute on public transport when there an awful lot of people who literally can’t do their job without fuel.

[MolyHolyGuacamole]

[quote ivykaty44]@MolyHolyGuacamole

If someone doesn't want or need what you want, then you can have what they don't want, unless that is other do want what you want and get to it first[/quote]
Still don't know why you quoted me as what I said and what I replied to has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting something, it has to do with smugness and superiority

[FanGirlX]

It might be difficult to understand, but not everyone has the privilege to have had driving lessons (cost or time), and car ownership is as difficult financially as home ownership.

Can you show me where I can buy a house for £1,000? Appreciate there is insurance, tax, petrol maintenance involved in car ownership but public transport isn't free either.

[icedcoffees]

Imagine being on a strict budget and barely making ends meet. How do you then afford driving lessons, insurance, the purchase of a car. You can't. Saying 'public transport' is expensive isn't the answer. Public transport is the ONLY option to a lot of people and saving for a car WHILST HAVING to use public transport isn't possible.

That's why rural parents focus so much on getting their children behind the wheel before they leave home. Most kids here have lessons as soon as they turn 17 and are on the road six months later - because their lives will be impossibly difficult if they don't learn or put it off until adulthood.

Of course being an adult learner is different but that's why I think it should be a priority as a teenager/young person. It's much easier to pay for lessons and insurance/a car if you live at home and fund them out of your part-time job.

I see so many threads on here from adults whose lives are really bloody difficult because they don't drive and they really, really wish they'd done it sooner.

[FanGirlX]

That's why rural parents focus so much on getting their children behind the wheel before they leave home. Most kids here have lessons as soon as they turn 17 and are on the road six months later - because their lives will be impossibly difficult if they don't learn or put it off until adulthood.

Most people get free lessons from parents first and then go to a driving instructor to learn how to pass their test. At least that's how things worked when I was learning.

[TuftyMarmoset]

All you need for public transport is the money for that journey. For a car you need to save hundreds or thousands up front. It's much more difficult to do that if you are scrabbling for money each week. Lessons are so expensive, you have to work 4+ hours as a teenager just to afford one hour lesson. It's just not an option for everyone.

[icedcoffees]

@FanGirlX

That's why rural parents focus so much on getting their children behind the wheel before they leave home. Most kids here have lessons as soon as they turn 17 and are on the road six months later - because their lives will be impossibly difficult if they don't learn or put it off until adulthood.

Most people get free lessons from parents first and then go to a driving instructor to learn how to pass their test. At least that's how things worked when I was learning.

Yes, it was the same for me and I wasn't even particularly rural, but public transport where we lived was expensive and inconvenient.

My mum and dad taught me, and then after I booked my test, I had more intensive professional lessons to help me along. I passed first time so it obviously wasn't an awful technique to use!

[icedcoffees]

@TuftyMarmoset

All you need for public transport is the money for that journey. For a car you need to save hundreds or thousands up front. It's much more difficult to do that if you are scrabbling for money each week. Lessons are so expensive, you have to work 4+ hours as a teenager just to afford one hour lesson. It's just not an option for everyone.

Which is why your parents' teach you, and you pay for your lessons while living at home, rent-free with your parents. Working four hours for one hour of lessons isn't a big deal imo, you only need one or two lessons a week.

So that's working two 4x hour shifts a week to cover your lessons - it's hardly being sent down the mines!

Cars also don't need to cost thousands - you can use credit cards to pay and most garages offer payment plans, even on cars that only cost 1.5k.

Of course there are always going to be people who really can't afford a car, but that's the case for everything in life. It doesn't mean people who do rely on their cars for work/school are over-reacting about not being able to get diesel.

[TuftyMarmoset]

Insuring a learner on a car is also extremely expensive! When I was at school not a million years ago we were only allowed to work 8 hours a week, so you'd be working just to pay for those two lessons and not any keep, transport to school, or other teen stuff.

[Stellaris22]

What if your parents can't afford lessons for themselves, let alone their children. Plus the time for lessons when you're already working long hours on minimum wage.

You might view driving as 'the done thing' everyone can do, and quoting public transport as expensive. But a lot of people are barely making ends meet (UC cuts, energy bills) so adding lessons and car ownership is an expense they just can't afford.

[icedcoffees]

I mean, we can go on about "what ifs" until we're blue in the face. There are always going to be exceptions and there are always going to be people who will never learn to drive.

So, yes, owning a car is always going to be out of reach of some people, but the same goes for millions of other things - home ownership is a big one. Mortgages are always cheaper than rent, but many people will never be able to save up for a deposit while paying rent.

But none of that changes the fact that driving, for many, is essential and far more convenient than any other method of transport. It's perfectly okay for people who (for whatever reason) rely on their cars for work, the school run or buying food, to be worried/panicked when they can't fill up and get fuel.

[FanGirlX]

What if your parents can't afford lessons for themselves, let alone their children.

Another family member. My cousin gave me some driving lessons too. If you've never rurally then you don't understand the focus on learning to drive as soon as you are 17 because public transport just isn't an option in many rural areas. It really isn't a luxury, it's an essential.

[MidnightMeltdown]

Years ago, before cars were common, people coped just fine, but I guess that things were more local and less centralised in those days. The problem is that so many people are now reliant on cars.

I don't drive and have no desire to, but I bought my house knowing that, so I made sure that I was walking distance to the station and in an area with good local amenities etc. It's not the same if you're used to depending on a car.

Having said this, I do have friends who will drive places that they could walk in 10 or 15 mins, and then they complain that they can't lose weight and spend ££££ on gym memberships. This baffles me

[FanGirlX]

Years ago, before cars were common, people coped just fine, but I guess that things were more local and less centralised in those days.

Yes, I agree. People tended to work more locally but look at how much of the high street has closed, banks, post offices etc. These tend to be in the local big town now, so people have to travel to work in them and use them. A lot of local branch offices have closed and are centralised too, so again people have to travel further for work and Public transport in rural areas has got worse, not better during this time. Remember the Beeching cuts to rural rail services?

[Sockwomble]

"It's easy to forget car ownership is a luxury"

Being able to use public transport is a privilege. Some people cannot, wherever they may live.

[icedcoffees]

I don't drive and have no desire to, but I bought my house knowing that, so I made sure that I was walking distance to the station and in an area with good local amenities etc. It's not the same if you're used to depending on a car.

Areas change, though. Our town, for example, used to have a leisure centre, a swimming pool, several banks - it now has none of those things. The nearest bank (depending your branch) is a 40 minute drive away. The nearest swimming pool is a similar distance. Those are all recent closures too - in the past 3-5 years or so.

So buying somewhere where you have good access to amenities is no guarantee of anything, really. Our town also used to have a good bus service and a good train service - there are no public buses now (they terminate 7 miles away) and the trains don't run on Sundays, Bank Holidays, early in the morning OR late at night.

They used to a few years ago, though.

[Parker231]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58729653.amp

The Army now getting involved with petrol distribution.