to not understand how Philip Green and his wife live with themselves?

[MaMaLa321]

Tina Green received millions from Arcadia, as did Philip Green. Now the company has gone down, with a big hole in the pension pot. How do they live with themselves?

[Bakeachocolatecaketoday]

Businesses are independant entities, and as such regulated by certain rules.

People are allowed to remove/pay themselves money if the business is solvent.

At a later point if the business becomes non-solvent it MUST call in the receivers.

Sometime (in cases like now) the reasons for sovancy are very time dependant - COVID has caused cash flow to stop which will be the death of many many high street businesses. They can't just be proped up with indefinate money in case the market comes back. The govenment furlough money is a drop in the ocean compared with the cost of property rents and stock - none of which they know will sell or not. The business then has to stop as it really is too much money to keep going. The loan of £30m didn't go through as that was thought to be not enough money to turn it around.

HUGE rafts of people are buying online and the likes of ASOS have eaten Topshop's lunch.

[FrenchBoule]

Just like any other rich people- they don’t give a shit about people that they screwed over so they can carry on with their easy life

I was wondering the other day what’s the point in paying into company pension if they go bust your pension’s gone as well. 2 employers like that and your retirement is screwed despite paying into the pot for several years.

Despicable they get away with it 😢😡

[Bakeachocolatecaketoday]

@FrenchBoule

Just like any other rich people- they don’t give a shit about people that they screwed over so they can carry on with their easy life

I was wondering the other day what’s the point in paying into company pension if they go bust your pension’s gone as well. 2 employers like that and your retirement is screwed despite paying into the pot for several years.

Despicable they get away with it 😢😡

The pensions haven't gone, they have a "hole" as the markets are low at the minute. Pension funds paid in are protected in stocks and shares, they are not part of the business and will continue to exist pi. The fund holes may disappear when the markets rise again after Covid.

I don't think anyone has lost any pension.

[Cheeseandwin5]

RB/TG green bought Arcadia for £850m and three years later paid TG 1.2b in dividends
They bought BHS for £200m and when they sold it in 2015 there was £571m missing from the pension fund.

They seem to me to be the archetypal predator , buying companies, plundering them off all (cash) assets, selling anything of value and then discarding for others to pick up the pieces.
I read an article that in US, this is happening a lot with small newspapers companies ( who have large property assets but low cash funds) being bought and destroyed in such a way.
The governments need to put better rules in place as in the end it will be the ordinary person who both suffers and has to pay the price..
These people have no consideration or care for the companies or the staff, they will literally strip everything bare , destroying entities and lives to add to the billions they already have. They deserve our scorn!

[KaptainKaveman]

YANBU but he and Tina really couldn't care less. They worship the god of money and nothing less. They are amoral and their employees really don't form part of the equation. I expect they would strip the rings off their dead fingers if they thought they were worth a quid or two.

He has stripped the company and the pension pot so he can feed at the trough because he can. He is allowed. He's been knighted for it. He's been sent the strong message that the love of money is the root to enormous responsibility-free wealth. He is what our system has made him. Bloated, grasping, avaricious and venal.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Philip Green = Jacob Marley

I hate him.

[the80sweregreat]

His the sort to say' anyone can do what I have done and build an empire ' etc etc. Sir Alan Sugar is the same.
The fact that not everyone can be like him doesn't really occur to him or his wife. It's just greed and looking out for number one and blow everyone else.
I feel for the staff who will have to work over Christmas for a pittance knowing their jobs are not safe and a glum new year ahead. Maybe someone will buy it ?
Let's hope something turns up but I know JD have backed out.
As for him , I hope his yacht runs aground and nobody helps them over Christmas! Completely Unlikely I know!

[bp300]

I voted yabu. It is the governments fault there is a hole in many companies pension pots because they keep interest rates too low. It is the governments fault that they charge massive business rates on high Street stores do they can't compete with online retail and it is the governments fault that they have imposed lockdowns causing high Street businesses to fail.

[boomshakey]

It is the governments fault there is a hole in many companies pension pots because they keep interest rates too low.

Interest rates are ridiculous for savings, but if they raise them there will also be a fallout.

[nitgel]

@PicsInRed

Psychopaths innit

Yep

[Cheeseandwin5]

@Bakeachocolatecaketoday

Instead of covering the hole in the pensions pot, the Greens instead had a huge dividend paid to them instead.
Funds that should have gone to help the group, has instead been drained out of the company in dividends and management charges.

[Andante57]

I think he’ll get his comeuppance Harvey Weinstein style.
Aside from his immorality he will have broken some law somewhere I’m sure.

[wink1970]

I understand that the Arcadia pension fund is protected by the state Pension Protection Fund: though that does impose limits on those who have been in the scheme for a log time, it does shore up much of the hole.

But Green will know this, of course.

[wink1970]

Ah, I take that back, for the shop workers it isn't a defined pension scheme do probably won't be covered. :-(

[nosswith]

I don't think the Krays had any problem living with their actions. Neither did Harold Shipman or Fred West. I'm sure Philip Green sleeps well at night.

I'd prefer he was sleeping soundly in a prison cell though.

[Hesnotlocal]

I used to work in a business that advised (and was run by) very very wealthy people. Most of them were convinced that whenever anything seemed unpopular with the masses (like asking staff to take pay cuts whilst paying themselves £££, bankers getting big bonuses despite a financial crisis, super profits on PFI contracts etc) it was because the masses are too stupid to understand why they are actually the good guys. In their minds however badly they treat staff they are still great for having paid them at all and if staff are not happy with the situation why are they not working harder and starting their own business. If people complain about things like mismanaged pensions etc they only have themselves to blame for not making other arrangements. These people tend to only hang around with other people who feel the same way.

[oneglassandpuzzled]

I'm not revolutionary in my politics but I think I'll make an exception for the likes of PG.

[Iamthewombat]

The level of ignorance about the operation and management of pension funds is startling, and scary.

At least one person has alleged that Philip Green has stolen money from the Arcadia pension fund. Do you genuinely believe this?

[CorianderQueen]

They tel themselves they Earned it. That's what people like this always say to themselves.

'I worked hard and earned my money' ad Infinitum.

[Cheeseandwin5]

@Iamthewombat

Stolen may not be legally the correct word but in all intents and purposes, that is what has happened. Why do you think He agreed to pay £363m back to the BHS pension fund??
Out of the goodness of his own heart?
He/BHS Management didn't invest the correct amount to make the pension viable. Instead taking the money out for himself.
He may have not taken the money out of the pension, but by failing to make proper contributions, it amounts to the same thing.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/28/philip-green-agrees-pay-363m-bhs-pension-fund

[dayswithaY]

YABU if you think everyone has the same moral compass as you. If all crooks were troubled by their conscience there would be no more crimes in the world. Phil and Tina sleep very well at night because they think they are cleverer and more deserving than the rest of us who are ignorant, timid, dull little plebs who only exist to buy his sweat shop produced clothing, further lining his pockets. He has never ever suffered the consequences of his actions and probably never will. Even if he loses his empire he will never be forced to sweep the streets. Being unpleasant has really paid off for him.

Have you really never met anyone who only cares about themselves before? If so, I'd like to live in your world, please.

[bp300]

[quote Cheeseandwin5]@Iamthewombat

Stolen may not be legally the correct word but in all intents and purposes, that is what has happened. Why do you think He agreed to pay £363m back to the BHS pension fund??
Out of the goodness of his own heart?
He/BHS Management didn't invest the correct amount to make the pension viable. Instead taking the money out for himself.
He may have not taken the money out of the pension, but by failing to make proper contributions, it amounts to the same thing.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/28/philip-green-agrees-pay-363m-bhs-pension-fund[/quote]
When PG took the 1.2 billion dividend in 2005 interest rates were at normal levels. The only reason the pension fund is in defect is because interest rates have been kept to low by the government.

[Iamthewombat]

Stolen may not be legally the correct word but in all intents and purposes, that is what has happened. Why do you think He agreed to pay £363m back to the BHS pension fund??

Actually I specifically referred to the Arcadia pension fund but since you mention BHS, let’s deal with that.

The controversy arose when Green sold BHS to Dominic Chappell. At the time of the sale, the BHS pension fund was in deficit. Pension funds can move from deficit to surplus rapidly, depending on the value of the supporting assets and the assumptions made by the actuaries assessing the scheme.

It is not illegal to sell a company when its pension scheme is in deficit.

The pensions regulator took the view that Green had been irresponsible in selling BHS to Dominic Chappell, a former bankrupt who was considered to lack the skills and financial backing to keep BHS afloat and fulfil the future responsibilities to fund the pension scheme.

There was never a suggestion that Green had personally stolen from the fund. I don’t like the man, but I’m not going to support claims that he is a thief.

Whether BHS under his stewardship had made the correct level of contributions in the past is a matter of opinion. The scheme was managed by independent trustees, advised by actuaries.

Because he had broken no laws personally, MPs resorted to putting pressure on him to inject some cash into the scheme because the new owners of BHS clearly could not. The threat of withdrawing the knighthood was used. If he had broken any kind of law they wouldn’t have had to do that.

The pensions regulator wanted to keep the BHS scheme out of the pension protection fund. That is why they negotiated a settlement with Green.

[SilverDragonfly1]

@sleepyhead

They don't care.

They see it as they played by the rules so it's not fault that the rules make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

They likely think that those who will lose out could have themselves been billionaires with off-shore tax-efficient wheezes if they just would try harder.

Everything that goes right is completely down to their talent and hard work.

Everything that goes wrong is just one of those things and can't be helped.

Exactly this. They 'played the game, took the risks and won'. The people who are now losing their jobs should have just tried harder.

[KaptainKaveman]

Stop defending the indefensible @iamthewombat.