To think my neighbour shouldn't be so friendly now?

[abstractzebra]

My next door neighbour has had issues with noise in the flat above.
It was bad when it was just the tenant and two small children but now there's 2 other adults living there and there's no carpets.
My neighbour wanted to sort it out amicably and even though she has told the housing association that it's extremely noisy, she has also spoken politely to the tenant.
We can also hear some of the noise but obviously being directly below, she bears the brunt of it.
I admired her ability to keep amicably speaking to the tenant.
However, the other two recent tenants, a brother and her new boyfriend have been verbally abusing the small children. It's been awful.
I obviously can't say if it's gone further than this as we can't see, only hear.
My neighbour texts me and talks to me about it a lot.
Last night she started to text me, saying she'd absolutely had enough and everything that had happened that day etc.
I said I was disappointed that after all that was reported 10 days ago, it seems nothing has changed.
She has been told that the children were already considered at risk but I don't know any more than that.
After listening to all her woes last night, I walked out of the door this morning and she was having a friendly chat with the tenant and the abusive boyfriend. She tried to include me in the conversation but I just walked away as I don't want to make pleasantries with a shit like him.
AIBU to think that she should not be making friendly conversation with him particularly and it totally gives the wrong message?
To be clear, everything has been reported in a timely manner to the appropriate people.

[Yoloyohol]

I'm afraid you come across as far more concerned with your neighbors fate, the noise and dodgy occupancy issue, and how she handles being bullied, than the issues for the children behind it.
Possibly because she's talking to you about her fears and the impact of what's going on, all the time. So it's become about her safety and stress rather than the children? It seems like you want to solve that problem and manage her and are frustrated that she isn't in agreement with how.
I might be being very unfair, because you obviously care about your friend, but If it's coming over that way here, then consider how it's coming across in r/l?

They are blaming her regardless.
They've not said a single word to anyone else and I think it's because they see her as being the easiest target to blame.

It doesn't make any difference once the decision on who's to blame has been made. These sort of people have a system of 'rules' and decision making processes about how others should respond to their lifestyles. They never see themselves and their behavior as responsible for what happens to them, there has to be someone 'out to get them' who's causing it all.

You're accidentally victim blaming because you think they'd be less confrontational to her if she showed some disapproval, but it's too late and even if she'd done it earlier it isn't automatic. The most vulnerable person nearest to them that they don't like, will usually be the primary target.

If she distances or cuts them off, to them that's absolute proof to them that she's 'grassed' them 'up'. (it is 'up' intentionally)
If she stays friendly enough it may be considered proof by them that she's a 'back stabber' but it will generally leave them guessing and still looking around for other targets that have 'snitched' on them. Her safety is improved by them being less certain, not by a well meaning neighbor insisting she has "her back 100%" while doing little other than listening and trying to direct her behavior.

She probably knows that mostly what's going to happen here is action is taken to make him become a legal rent paying sub-tenant, and they are given a social worker to supervise their learning curve to keep the abuse at home to below removal level, and the noise from it to just below eviction level.

Obviously the landlord isn't the appropriate place to report child abuse to if you actually wanted proper child protection action , rather than tenancy issues and him being made to legalize and pay rent and agree to keep the noise down, or her to be told to make him leave.
HA will just delay action being taken while they try to help her 'sustain her tenancy' (= get the rent paid, and any complaints reduced)
But from what other pp's are saying you already know this.

Read and re-read and act upon Sparticuscaticus's spot on post if you genuinely want to help the children.

[Atalune]

op the BEST thing you can do is calling the police, social services and nspcc. And keep calling them. Be annoyingly persistent.

Safeguarding children is everyone’s responsibility.

So sorry you and your neighbour are going through this. Sounds horrid x

[Sparticuscaticus]

@abstractzebra

I see her every single day, pop in when I get home from work. I text her and say I'm coming over in 5 mins for a catch up or we phone so we can talk about it with no one hearing.
I've got her back 100%. I would step in if she was under immediate threat and do whatever it takes to keep her safe.
I just want her to avoid any interaction as they have nothing positive to say and each interaction is more horrible for her and she gets more blame.
I'm going to start making more phone calls to try and find out if all the correct agencies really do know what is going on.
Why hasn't he been thrown out?
He's already broken the law and is abusing children within days of moving in and is not the tenant.
Has he said to people that we are all lying and it hasn't happened and they've accepted that.
It's been about 12 days since the worst incident, yet he's still here continuing his behaviour.

Because you didn't call the RIGHT agencies!! You were told repeatedly to call children services (even in your last thread too) and the police, to report child abuse. Instead you rang Housing association with a noise complaint.

That's like phoning your local mechanic and asking him to ring your GP for you to arrange a hip operation.

You cannot do a child protection report via housing it gets watered down and summarised , the duty social worker cannot gather more facts from you direct (all those information bits that they need to know and only you can answer, in fact your neighbour needs to be there when you ring. I can't understand why she or you listen to a grown adult abuse those children and do nothing but text each other, instead of ringing the police .)

Duty SW will also make the assumption that your concern was noise not safety of children because you have not acted in ANY WAY showing you are concerned for those children. The HA will only pass vague info on but it won't be good enough. I don't believe you told housing what you told MN here because NO Housing officer I know would respond in any manner other than to tell you to immediately call police and CSD yourself!!! (If you can ring HA, you can ring police. It's 999... or 101)

You can look local MASH safeguarding team up online for your area. Ring them today.

Ps social workers will not tell you anything about what then happens as that's a breach of confidentiality, you are only a neighbour not a close relative

Ring children services now. Today. And stop prevaricating .FFS

[AnaadiNitya]

Well you havnt got her back have you because she was outside and they were out side and you wasn’t there. Do you expect her to hid in the house when you are not there?

[theprincessmittens]

Haven't you posted about this before? When he locked the children out of the flat, one of them knocked on your door asking for help but you ignored them?

You were told then to call the Police. Still sounds like no one has.

[BadgersBum]

I'm sickened every time I hear of a mother putting her need for a man in her life before her own children. Please don't let these children become another statistic, if he thinks he's getting away with it, the abuse may increase in frequency and severity.

I agree with the softly, softly approach, try to keep them on side but also report, report, report to everyone and everywhere you can think of please. You and your neighbour are the voices for these children.

[laceandpaperflowers]

id be careful with anyone who smokes weed due to the paranoia..I would do my best to stay off their radar -your neighbour may be trying to placate them cos she's scared but by engaging with them she may become a subject of any paranoia the experience

[Flatpackback]

This is turning into one long drip feed. Did you watch Alan Bennett's Talking Heads recently, the one with Immelda Staunton? Check it out if you haven't seen it. The situation sounds bad for the children, your neighbour is doing her best to cope with it without becoming part of the problem herself.

[Thecobwebsarewinning]

She’s probably frightened.

[highlandshortbread]

@abstractzebra you sound like such a lovely neighbour.

Is smoking permitted in flats? Is he smoking indoors? Can’t believe the HA are so blasé about it all :(

Definitely phone the relevant agencies. I wonder if the HA staff have to follow a process (lots of red tape!) whereas you (general public) can just report immediately.

Good luck

[BoggledBudgie]

She’s absolutely doing the right thing. If she becomes unfriendly they could make her life a living hell. Been there, done that. If I could go back I’d stay pleasant and friendly for the sake of not being on the receiving end of their aggression whilst still anonymously reporting to SS.

[Notcontent]

This is a classic situation isn’t it? Loser, weed-smoking boyfriend moves in. Because he is such a failure as a human being, he can’t deal with small children and starts being abusive to them. The mother prioritises holding on to the boyfriend and therefore ignores the abuse. Really tragic.

[abstractzebra]

I see her every single day, pop in when I get home from work. I text her and say I'm coming over in 5 mins for a catch up or we phone so we can talk about it with no one hearing.
I've got her back 100%. I would step in if she was under immediate threat and do whatever it takes to keep her safe.
I just want her to avoid any interaction as they have nothing positive to say and each interaction is more horrible for her and she gets more blame.
I'm going to start making more phone calls to try and find out if all the correct agencies really do know what is going on.
Why hasn't he been thrown out?
He's already broken the law and is abusing children within days of moving in and is not the tenant.
Has he said to people that we are all lying and it hasn't happened and they've accepted that.
It's been about 12 days since the worst incident, yet he's still here continuing his behaviour.

[Paintedmaypole]

YABU to try to dictate how your neighbour should behave. Exchanging pleasantries doesn't mean that she is condoning their behaviour. Otherwise you are handling this the best way you can. The only other thing you can do is call the police when it's actually kicking off.

[laceandpaperflowers]

yes, it is frustrating. we have a neighbour who calls people behind their back and then sucks up to them to their face. I am pleasant to all my neighbours but dont stand around talking to them - a smile and hello is enough for me. I reckon there will always be one neighbour people are bit intimidated by and folks are scared to get on the wrong side of them

[Pebblexox]

'Don't shit where you eat'
I remember my mum using that phrase as we were growing up, and it took me years to understand what it means. She has to live around these people, if he's abusive do you really think her ignoring them or antagonising them is a good idea? It sounds like she's keeping the peace for now as there's nothing else she can do. At least not directly with the neighbours.

[highlandshortbread]

further thought. I think your neighbour sounds quite anxious and scared actually.

Can you text her / go around and see her and say you’re there if she needs you? She might need some reassurance.

Are your properties big enough that she can come over to yours for some respite? Even just a cuppa?

It sounds suffocating and awful for her!!

[Livelovebehappy]

Unfortunately you invite a whole load of drama if you make an enemy of someone like your neighbours. And if she ignores them when previously being friendly with them, they are going to jump on that and potentially make her life hell. They’re bullies. Must admit I would probably just be civil and not engage with chit chat with them, but clearly your neighbour is being cautious.

[AnaadiNitya]

Have you ever thought your neighbour might feel threatened by this man?

[IdblowJonSnow]

Sounds awful OP.
Those poor kids, they are the real issue here, I wouldn't be too het up over how your neighbour handles the guy. I probably would have had the same reaction as you tbh but maybe shes scared of him as PP have suggested.

[highlandshortbread]

She’s probably quite anxious about confrontation and feels better after speaking to them even briefly.

Better the devil you know.

(Been there. And my anxiety would ease as soon as I spoke to them in a friendly way even if I didn’t want to be friendly)

Makes me really sad about the abuse though. :( NSPCC would be better to report to

[magicstar1]

DH used to park in an underground car park. A group of guys started shooting up heroin in it, and it was awful. But DH used to park up, say hello to them...be friendly, and we'd report them to the police. They got moved on, but didn't target DH. Your neighbour is probably doing the same type of thing.

[Atalune]

When the children are being verbally abused, CALL THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY.

[BrightYellowDaffodil]

How on earth would engaging with them expose your neighbour to accusations of blame? Chatting to someone in passing is not the same as endorsing their behaviour unless said chatting is along the lines of “No, of course you’re not doing anything wrong. Carry on abusing those children!”

[MistyGreenAndBlue]

Sorry. Didn't mean to imply you didn't have her back. Just trying to see where she's coming from. I don't think you're unreasonable for blanking him at all btw. He sounds awful.
I hope all this gets resolved soon mainly for the kids' sake.