To sod SD as when I return to teaching in Sept it isn’t possible?

[motherrunner]

I’m a secondary school teacher. Despite all the ‘guidance’ my desk will be less than 1m from the classes I teach (Yr 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13). I will not be wearing protection as the guidance tells me my workplace in ‘Covid secure’. Come Sept I will have one 20 minute break a day as I am required to do a pre-school duty, a morning break duty, a lunch duty and an after school duty it’s every day. I can wash my hands once a day in those times. 5 times a day a class of 30 will be breathing at me.

Up until now I have followed the ‘rules’ religiously. I haven’t seen my mum (who is in a nursing home) since early March. I have turned down play dates for my children.

AIBU to think sod the SD and enjoy myself for the rest of the summer break? I was hoping for a sliver of hope from the dfe today with the promised revised guidance that hasn’t materialised. Come Sept I’ll be faced with over 200+ over 11s in close, unventilated spaces in 3 week so shall I just sod it?

[MrsHamlet]

PGCE applications might be up but that doesn't mean much if schools aren't taking trainees. I had to withdraw 12 training places for this year because we're not allowing people other than staff into classrooms. At least 6 of the places would have gone to shortage subject teachers. Universities can't take more trainees than they can place.

[Phineyj]

How would teachers and nurses be in any way comparable when schools have been closed to most since March? The data isn't there to make the comparison. I have also never seen a ward that didn't have a loo and a washbasin. Most classrooms have neither. It's not unusual to be two floors away from one in a school or (female staff in boys' schools) for the facilities to be in another building!

[motherrunner]

Thank you to all the sympathetic posts and I’m sorry for each and everyone one of us who has, is having, and will continue to have, a hard time.

As I said earlier, today had been a tough day. For some reason I woke up feeling hopeful about the promised guidance, esp, when saw The Times front page, but when it has come to nothing I just thought ‘what’s the point?’.

I think part of the reason for saying ‘sod it’ is also to rip the plaster off. I haven’t mixed socially with everyone except DH or DCs since lockdown and feeling quite anxious about it. I wasn’t required in school to supervise keyworker children as I was teaching live each day. I’ve been out and about etc but haven’t been in contact with anyone except my own family for a few minutes at a time.

[Mosseywossey]

I am the same I have been religiously been SD and shielding because of very vulnerable family. My whole summer I have been stuck doing the same boring stuff when I had a whole summer of fun planned. I would love to go to the beach or something but have tried to be responsible. Honestly I don’t see the point everyone else is doing it and either way I am going to be chuck into a class and like the OP there is very little chance of washing hands. My classroom is in a separate block and it’s a 5 minute walk to the nearest one.

[Illuyanka]

I do understand the frustration, but as a parent of a child with weak immune system, and not a teacher basher at all, I do hope teachers to think about the children who's parents have been following every rule and trusting school to send children in September. I am still torn. Should I send him back or deregister? So reading the OP though I do understand why, but do feel even more scared and panicky.

[SaltyAndFresh]

@Illuyanka that must be really worrying. There is nothing you can do to control what your child's classmates and their families are doing so I don't think teachers closeting themselves away is going to make much difference.

[HateIsNotGood]

Maybe we should start a couple of parallel Lists.

One for Parents:

Yes - My child needs to go back to School in September - happy to sign a disclaimer giving all CV19 Safety Responsibility during School Hours to the School.

No - I am not happy about the CV19 Safety Measures my child's School proposes to have in place.

And as above, a Teacher Agreement along similar lines.

By the start of Term hopefully each individual School will have a good idea about the number of pupils and teachers that are willing to give it a go in Sept.

Maybe each School could appoint a Deputy amongst the Teacher Not Comings to oversee the education of the Student Not comings?

[AnxiousAlpaca]

Seriously if what you’ve said is true your union needs to be doing more. What are your local reps saying? If there’s no joy there go to regional office. It’s what you pay for. You are legally allowed to refuse to work in unsafe conditions. If you can’t do 2m then surely it’s 1m plus (meaning other mitigations need to be in place) You’re as entitled as anyone else to work in a Covid secure environment

[Stripesgalore]

‘Surely many people have been at work throughout, not just retail, police, social workers, prison officers, care workers.

Not in a small room with 30 other people for hours with no social distancing and no masks though, have they?’

It wasn’t a comparison. It was a response to a poster who questioned that thousands of people have worked throughout the pandemic. Millions of people have worked throughout the pandemic, many with higher death rates than nurses.

None of that of course makes the danger in schools in any way acceptable.

[Iamnotthe1]

@AnxiousAlpaca

Seriously if what you’ve said is true your union needs to be doing more. What are your local reps saying? If there’s no joy there go to regional office. It’s what you pay for. You are legally allowed to refuse to work in unsafe conditions. If you can’t do 2m then surely it’s 1m plus (meaning other mitigations need to be in place) You’re as entitled as anyone else to work in a Covid secure environment

Covid guidance for schools, as issued by the DfE, states that schools don't need to have social distancing in order to be safe. It's something that can be done 'if possible'. If it's not, as it isn't in classrooms or schools in general, it doesn't matter.

For me, there will be 34 people in a room that's 8 metres by 6 metres. All of them are over 10 so the evidence says that all of them will transmit the virus in the same way that adults do. There's no space to distance, so we won't. I'll be working within a metre of others for over six hours a day. There's no PPE because we're told by the Government it's not required in schools as the level of risk doesn't warrant it. I'll be sharing surfaces with others as I mark books or use the sport equipment during breaks.

[Stripesgalore]

‘It's not all 'home at 3.30 and long holidays,' you know.’

I don’t know why you have put that in quotes when responding to me. I didn’t say it, nor did anyone else on this thread.

I’m aware how difficult teaching is and no doubt it will be much worse during Covid.

[Mistressiggi]

@motherrunner

And in response to all the breaks, no we don’t get paid for breaks but it’s taken out of the 1265 hours extra assigned hours we need to complete over an academic year so both NEU and NASUWT reps in my school agrees to it.

I won't be much help with this as different system in Scotland, but we can do the same, hold meetings etc at lunchtime (which is unpaid) as part of our working time agreement however ones at lunchtime have to have the agreement of staff to run them then, if staff disagree then it has to happen after school instead. Are you sure there isn't any rule like that in England? Your reps simply may not know.

[Keepdistance]

The guidance is based on it not being airborne.
If it is airborne being in a room with 30 people is an issue. Being in a room with 30 people who are the same people probably more an issue as if 1 has it after 1-14+ days someone else might have it then they are both sat in with you until someone gets symptoms.
Some schools worldwide have had maybe 100 infected.

Parents arent being careful though. Sleepovers. Playdates, no sd between kids as it's ceuel apparently all though U4T idiots.
Probably if we did a pole on the numbers letting kids be under 1m away it would be over 90%.

If 10yr transmit like adults thats some in yr 5 up...
Also years 3/4/5 werent in so they cant have data on ages 7-10.
There are more outbreaks in schools the last 3w than in any other type of workplace...
And actually nurses come out either average or low on ons death ststs. Maybe they are more generally healthy (or matpybe standing a lot like teachers lower your blood sugar

[flumposie]

Yanbu op.I'm a Secondary teacher. I'm now going swimming, eating out , hopefully taking my daughter to London. All because in 3 weeks time I will be mixing with over a thousand pupils in cramped conditions. I'm not being careless but I'm certainly not just staying at home anymore.

[Stripesgalore]

Probably nurses are average on death stats because they have PPE.

[HeyBlaby]

'Probably nurses are average on death stats because they have PPE'

The facemasks used by the majority of staff working with covid+ve patients are the same flimsy surgical ones seen being worn by the public. They are doing next to nothing for the nurse/HCP wearing it.

[year5teacher]

I’ll still be trying to SD but I’ve accepted it’ll be like pissing in the wind.
I’m also not sure what is going to happen with my breaks as I think I’m going to be supervising them having lunch in class and then potentially also on lunch duty, but I’m sure it’ll get sorted. I didn’t have a break at all when I taught over lockdown.

[MrsHamlet]

@AnxiousAlpaca

Seriously if what you’ve said is true your union needs to be doing more. What are your local reps saying? If there’s no joy there go to regional office. It’s what you pay for. You are legally allowed to refuse to work in unsafe conditions. If you can’t do 2m then surely it’s 1m plus (meaning other mitigations need to be in place) You’re as entitled as anyone else to work in a Covid secure environment

That is true. But "Covid secure" and "Covid secure in schools" are not the same. We are not allowed PPE. On a monday, I will have 34 year 11 + me for two hours at a time. They will get a 5 minute loo break at a predetermined time. I will not being allowed to go to the loo in that time because I have to stay in the classroom. In any case, the staff loo is two buildings away.
I will then have to leg it across school to teach 32 year 10 + me in another room for another two hours. There is no break time between lessons.
At lunch time, I can have 20 minutes in my preallocated space before I have to supervise my 32 year 9 form group eating lunch in their form room. Then I get to have 32 different year 11 students in a different room.
No masks. No visors. I can't be 2m from the front row. Classroom windows open but not far enough for anyone to climb out. I can't wash my hands between 8.30 and 12.45.
I love my job. I take my responsibility seriously. But why is my workplace allowed to be less "Covid secure" than other workplaces?! I don't know any teacher who wants special treatment. We just want to feel safe and feel that the students are safe, and by extension, their families are safe. I've been to funerals of students. I've supported students whose parents have died. I would rather not have to do that again, especially if those deaths could have been prevented by better safety measures.

[KnobChops]

@HeyBlaby

'Probably nurses are average on death stats because they have PPE'

The facemasks used by the majority of staff working with covid+ve patients are the same flimsy surgical ones seen being worn by the public. They are doing next to nothing for the nurse/HCP wearing it.

30% of staff in our hospital have covid antibodies. 7 staff died. The PPE was rubbish for anyone not working in ITU. Lots of people looked after floors of covid patients coughing non stop in a loose surgical mask, pinny and gloves. We can’t socially distance at work from each other or the patients. I think a lot of us who caught it also got it travelling in on crowded public transport. It remained crowded after lockdown as khan ran so few tubes. The main thing in our favour (survival) has probably been our age.

Nurses really DIDN’T get offered protection. The main thing in teachers favour is that circulating levels of the virus now are pretty low, in some areas non existent. You can’t catch it if no one has it. At the time we all caught it we couldn’t test anyone whereas now testing is much better. Needs to be better still though.

[FreshEggs]

I’m a Tube Driver and we went through a lot of what you are going through a few months ago. Many of us have worked throughout although in the early lockdown 30% of my depot were off at any one time owing to 12wk shielding (themselves or family members) or off with symptoms. We also had two drivers at my depot of 80 who lost parents to the virus so they were first shielding and then bereavement leave. The rest of us were doing shuttle services which felt okay as we effectively came in to work, did a stint of 4-5 tube driving and went home, minimising any mixing with others, plus the trains were empty due to the early lockdown. Back then we were not wearing masks as we were told not to wear them as they had no effect. The biggest concern was the other drivers touching all the buttons in the cab (up to ten staff per day, per train cab).

From the end of May the service was ramped up to nearly normal levels and we were absolutely terrified as we would be mixing in various staff areas along the whole of the line, plus back to a normal timetable which includes reversing in sidings and walking through the train touching everything the passengers touch as well as what other staff touch.

However what I will say is that we have been running a nearly full service since May and we have had no staff outbreak of the virus at all, and the customer levels have increased hugely in that time. Yes - masks are now ‘mandatory’ but after the early morning trains they aren’t worn religiously and those that do pull them down to chat etc. I saw someone today pull his mask down to sneeze into his hand! Yet I’ve not heard of one confirmed case of Covid in any of the hundreds of drivers on my entire line.

The toilet thing is a total nightmare as well, feel your pain as we only get 30 unpaid minutes per 8 hour shift. You might snatch a chance to go at a terminus station but it’s only a 4 minute turnaround so it’s difficult.

All I’d say is that I completely understand your fear regarding the virus but it may not be as bad as you think. The way I saw it is we just need to take tentative steps and see how it goes. It’s scary though.

[SaltyAndFresh]

@HateIsNotGood, you're not comprehending this well are you? Teachers are not saying they're not going to work. They're not, you're making it up. They're asking for better protection than nothing at all.

Do you think you understand now?

[motherrunner]

@FreshEggs Thank you for your honest reply, it’s comforting in a weird, ‘we can get through it‘ way.

What’s interesting to read is (& this isn’t a criticism) how some posters still don’t have any idea about how schools will ‘look’ in Sept - especially secondary. I guess the Gov and the media have done a cracking job with their photos of SD classrooms. I wish I could take a photo of mine or the corridors but if that student could get suspended, I’ll no doubt be fired!

Again in response to my breaks, I contracted my school rep. They agreed to the conditions as they said it is fair that it can be taken out of 1265. I then contacted regional, no reply. I then contacted national office and they said as I work in an academy - and joined after it became an academy- they can change working pay and conditions as they want.

This is why I do feel ‘sod it’. I have 3 weeks to enjoy time with my family. It’s not just the anxiety about the lack of SD in school but also how my teaching day will be: 4 x duties, teaching in different classrooms (we move to pupils in their zones), when it is my break I will have to eat in my car as the Staffroom is out of bounds and we don’t have any other space, I’m going to have to fight to use a toilet (5 for all our female staff, 1 is of those is unisex and 1 is dribbled so actually just 3).

A few weeks ago I read a post from a poster who said her NHS friend quit/went off sick as she had a breaking point whilst looking at Tena Lady as she couldn’t go to the toilet through her shift. I actually read that and thought ‘that’s a good idea for when I’m menstruating (flooding actually as peri menopausal), I wonder if it’ll work?’. I am quite nervous about being remembered as the teacher who flooded in front of their class.

[Fizzysours]

@motherrunner you can't do all those duties. You need a break during the day!!! Our head has asked our community for voluntary support to supervise breaks. They have come forward in droves bless em. So we will all still get a breather in the day.

Agree on social distancing. Every week I will be collecting, marking and returning approx 150 pieces of written work. Brilliant, I look forward to covid by November.

Also...our tightly controlled behaviour will probs go to shit. We can't run a reflection room for each of the yeargroups!

[motherrunner]

@Fizzysours Unfortunately our reps have told us that 20 minutes is fine as it complies to the Gov rules on working practices. For teachers the rules on breaks (as according to NEU and NASUWT) is that we are expected to have an reasonable break’ during our working day. Our reps have deemed 20 minutes as reasonable.

[motherrunner]

Just read back my first post this morning, I mean disabled, not ‘dribbled’. Small screen and no glasses, sorry!