Head of school I work for wants me to do cleaning to make up hours I can't do at mo

[babayjane67]

Hi all!
Sorry the titles bit long but couldn't think of a shorter one!
I work as a lunch time supervisor at my DDS school.we both went bk 3 wks ago as she's in yr6.i look after both her class bubbles,which is nearly the whole class of 29.
Anyway in normal times,I also do the breakfast club every day but obviously at the moment that's not possible.
When I went into work on Tues,the head caught me&said they're wanting to get everybody bk into school to make up for the hrs they're not working.one of the breakfast club girls is shielding so can't come bk but he's apparently talking to her about how it's going to work in September.
The other girl is coming bk on Mon being a lunch time supervisor for a new key worker kids bubble that will start.
He wants me to clean to make mine up.so all light switches,door handles,sinks in classrooms& toilets &all toilet seats throughout the school.desks too I think.
He said think about it&let me know tomorrow I'll come&find u.well he didn't though I did see him wandering round on Wed.i wasn't in yesterday as I've got a nasty ear infection at mo.we don't work Fridays as the kids only do half day so that a deep clean can be done of the school each week.
This morning I get an email detailing my cleaning schedule starting Mon&saying what equipment I will be using etc.not asking me if I wanna do it/have I thought about it&made a decision.no just this is yr schedule starting Mon let us know what side if the lunch time you want to do it.
I've got nothing against cleaning,I've been one as a job in the past.so I haven't got a problem with doing it as a job but I don't want to do it as fir a start I get asthma so that's why he said fir me to work with yr6 not the younger ones,as they can social distance better&they understand more.plus I really don't want to be cleaning their loo seats etc.Im not dealing with any little ones at mo in any capacity.ive got 2 GC the youngest being 4&I've had to keep away from them as he's got a low immune system as well as me with my asthma so I don't want to then be dealing with stuff like that where everyone sits,touches things&risk passing anything on.
My dp isn't happy about me doing either fir the same reasons&said he would have told the head no straight away!
I haven't replied to the email yet.
Aibu?

[ifonly4]

I'm an MDS and we've been offered cleaning or nothing here. As a compromise they're asking us to work less for the same pay. We have a list of things to clean, but it can't all be done in the time they're asking us to come in, so I think most of us are chosing what we think is the priority, ie clean taps to switch off after washing hands rather than toilets.

I was gutted to start with, I love my job - it's physically hard work but the children make up for that. Technically I'm not allowed contact with the children, although, it's hard to keep away totally and sometimes I have a chat with them if they're well over the 2m distance. A good point is that I can earn money and no one is allowed near me!

Sticking it out in the hope that one day soon I'll have my old job or something like it. I have a second job and a few have had their hours cut and we haven't even got furloughed staff back, so it's a case of taking the money while I can.

[AIMD]

I’m sorry but I don’t understand the issue here. You managed your asthma when you were a cleaner and when you clean at home. Your usual rule exposes you to as much, if not more, risk of catching Covid and so risk of taking it to your family. You’re not bothered about the actual cleaning because you’ve done cleaning before.

Sorry but I’m not clear on what the issue actually is?

If you are worried about the risk of taking Covid to your GC then you’ll only reduce that risk significantly by not being at school at all.

I

[ivykaty44]

The OP's JD will probably say that she can be asked to undertake 'any other reasonable duties', or words to that effect. Any interpretation of 'Reasonable' is going to be somewhat subjective, and I imagine that an ET will take the view that 'reasonable' in the context of coronavirus is different from reasonable in other circumstances. So, yes, in normal circumstances, you probably wouldn't expect someone in an admin role to undertake cleaning but, at the moment, it's important for everyone's safety. It's not feasible to leave it all to cleaners, as they won't be on the premises throughout school hours. Asking other staff to pitch in with the cleaning helps to keep all the workforce, as well as the children, safe, so it's in everyone's interests.

just rang acas, asked this question for a friend and been told changes of contract job role can't just be down to covid19

employers still need to follow procedures

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

I think if you are so concerned about cleaning surfaces little children have touched you really shouldn't be happy to be working at all, as your work directly with the children is far riskier.

You need to accept that you will only be paid for the hours you are actually prepared to work.

[GetUpAgain]

I am sure the head didn't mean to upset you by emailing instead of asking you again, but has a million and one things to resolve and perhaps hoped he could rely on you being a team player. You didn't mention anything when he first asked you so he probably thought you were OK with it. Its not really a big deal is it? Doing some cleaning for a couple of weeks is completely reasonable and if you work in a school you know you need to muddle through these times.

[Popc0rn]

I still don't see your issue with cleaning OP: being around primary school children is a bigger infection risk than cleaning an empty space.

[SunshinePeekingThrough]

I agree with Alexandernevermind

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I think if you are so concerned about cleaning surfaces little children have touched you really shouldn't be happy to be working at all, as your work directly with the children is far riskier.

You need to accept that you will only be paid for the hours you are actually prepared to work.

This^. Absolutely.

Cleaning poses a lower risk than being in the classroom with the children. I don’t understand your reasoning re your GC. As for who’s been doing it up til now, that could well be the head if this thread is anything to go by...

The head and senior staff need to sort the school out for the end of year and autumn term now. Not cleaning.

[MrsNoah2020]

@ivykaty44

The OP's JD will probably say that she can be asked to undertake 'any other reasonable duties', or words to that effect. Any interpretation of 'Reasonable' is going to be somewhat subjective, and I imagine that an ET will take the view that 'reasonable' in the context of coronavirus is different from reasonable in other circumstances. So, yes, in normal circumstances, you probably wouldn't expect someone in an admin role to undertake cleaning but, at the moment, it's important for everyone's safety. It's not feasible to leave it all to cleaners, as they won't be on the premises throughout school hours. Asking other staff to pitch in with the cleaning helps to keep all the workforce, as well as the children, safe, so it's in everyone's interests.

just rang acas, asked this question for a friend and been told changes of contract job role can't just be down to covid19

employers still need to follow procedures

Which procedure do you think the Head hasn't followed? He is actively trying to re-deploy her, which he is not compelled to do (in most circumstances), to keep her hours up. She probably earns more than a cleaner, so he is effectively offering to pay her above the going rate, to keep her at her current hours.

The OP needs to think about what is likely to happen to her job if she says no. The reality is that almost every employer in the country currently has a business case to restructure and to make redundancies. The OP's former role is already partially redundant, because the breakfast club is unlikely to re-start any time soon.

There are a lot of armchair warriors on MN employment threads with no grasp on reality.

[WorraLiberty]

@babayjane67

Domdoes yes I should have said no straight away as my dp said he would have done but I was taken completely by surprise!
Then when he said he'd come&find me Wed after saying think about&see what you thibk,I thought ok I can just tell you then that's good but he didn't then I was out yesterday due to this bloody awful ear infection so haven't had chance to see him.
Then this morning I get the email.

Why didn't you show a bit of imitative and just email him?

Honestly, cleaning plans and different rotas are a nightmare to plan so I'm sure he would've appreciated it.

But tbh, you're not coming across as much of a team player on this thread, so if you're going to refuse to muck in, prepare to have your pay cut.

[ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble]

I'm a TA, at the moment I'm cleaning tables,taps,switches etc twice a day , serving the food to children,supervising them while they eat, clearing their trays,wiping the tables after and then supervising them while they play. Teachers do the same(we take turns so we can still have breaks). None of these are part of out normal duties, but it's needed for the school to be open for as many children as possible, as safely as possible for everyone.

The MSAs have been given other tasks to do, mainly so we are not mixing bubbles.

[CaffiSaliMali]

Pretty much everyone with asthma is considered clinically vulnerable to Covid, except a small number whose asthma is mild enough not to make them eligible for the flu jab. We're advised to practice stringent social distancing.

A smaller number of people with severe asthma are considered extremely clinically vulnerable to Covid i.e. shielding.

OP - my asthma is triggered by cleaning chemical sprays so I use disposable wipes, or natural products like white vinegar to clean my house.

If it were me I would agree to do it on the condition that I could use products which didn't trigger my asthma i.e. wipes and not sprays.

[babayjane67]

Popcorn cleaning the sinks in the classrooms won't be in an empty space as the kids will be in the classrooms.they will also be wanting to use the loo no doubt while I'm in there,so will have to be go outside&wait for them to use then go bk again&carry on.this will be especially so for the younger infants probably.
I keep my distance from the kids in both yr6 bubbles I deal with.they eat their lunch in the classroom,I stand in the doorway or they eat it outside if weather's nice enough.
We are not allowed to touch their lunch boxes,open things for them etc so have no need to go nearer than is safe to them.unless they had a nasty fall or something then we have to wear PPE with masks to see to them.

[ScarlettDarling]

I think the cleaning poses a very low risk to you, certainly lower than working with a group of children. I'm a Reception teacher and I'm doing loads of cleaning in my classroom. We're cleaning equipment, handles, taps , table tops etc repeatedly throughout the day.

I really don't think your head is being unreasonable in asking you to make up your hours this way. At the minute we're all having to pull together and do our bit (I've drawn the line at cleaning the toilets in my classroom though!)

[Biscuitsdisappear]

I would want things clearly defined and on paper before I agreed to anything. You don't want him coming back later and saying "I know what I said but this is what I meant" which allows him to try and move the goal posts.

[phoenixearthworm]

@babayjane67

Popcorn cleaning the sinks in the classrooms won't be in an empty space as the kids will be in the classrooms.they will also be wanting to use the loo no doubt while I'm in there,so will have to be go outside&wait for them to use then go bk again&carry on.this will be especially so for the younger infants probably.
I keep my distance from the kids in both yr6 bubbles I deal with.they eat their lunch in the classroom,I stand in the doorway or they eat it outside if weather's nice enough.
We are not allowed to touch their lunch boxes,open things for them etc so have no need to go nearer than is safe to them.unless they had a nasty fall or something then we have to wear PPE with masks to see to them.

So there really is no problem, you are in the same room as the children when they eat their lunch and you will be in the same room as them when you clean the sink. You just tell them to move away from the sink while you clean it.

I teach and I am cleaning as well as supervising the children at lunch time. That involves cleaning the sinks, toilets, door handles, opening their food, supervising them at break and meeting and greeting them in the morning. I've been doing this all day every day, it's part and parcel of the job. I am also asthmatic.

[formerbabe]

Typical public sector mentality. Everything is such a drama.

[phoenixearthworm]

@formerbabe

Typical public sector mentality. Everything is such a drama.

The OP isn't representative of many public sector workers I know (i.e. all of my colleagues, we are all mucking in) but is actually representative of a CF who is happy to be at risk of redundancy.

[babayjane67]

Thankyou Caffi!
Yes I too only use antibac wipes to clean with.i don't use sprays etc of any sort.
I could ask him that I suppose,see if I could do that,even if I bought them myswlf.i wouldn't mind.
Im not sure I will be bk into work Mon,depending on how this ear infection is.im in alot if pain with it&have only today been able to be prescribed anything for it.mu do has just gone to pk it up for me as chemist had to order it in.theu didn't have it in stock.
If I'm still feeling the same then as I am now I won't be going in.

[LaurieMarlow]

Typical public sector mentality. Everything is such a drama

Exactly what I was thinking.

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

@formerbabe

Typical public sector mentality. Everything is such a drama.

Typical nasty post from this poster.

[ivykaty44]

The OP needs to think about what is likely to happen to her job if she says no. The reality is that almost every employer in the country currently has a business case to restructure and to make redundancies. The OP's former role is already partially redundant, because the breakfast club is unlikely to re-start any time soon.

if her job no longer exists then she can't just be forced to do another job, head needs to actually ask and take an answer not impose this on them. for all we know she may be made redundant anyway but forcing redeployment isn't allowed even during covid19 we are allowed to make our own choices - even if that is unemployment or getting another job

[AmazingGrace16]

You're being ridiculous.

Saying you didn't HAVE to come back to work just like the children. Absolute rubbish.

You're being asked to do a bit of additional cleaning. To pitch in and help out. It's for two weeks.

If you can think of alternative work to do in that time then sure mention it as a negotiation. Truth is though, your head is expecting you to be there Monday working as he has directed you to. You've left it far too late to raise concerns now.

[Davodia]

Your not expecting your employer to still pay you for hours you refuse to work, when there is work available for you to do, surely?
You’re employed as a lunchtime supervisor, not a cleaner. Your employer can’t just give you random tasks that would normally be outside your job description. Either your actual job is available for you to work, or it’s not available so you’re either furloughed or made redundant. I would not do the cleaning and would say either furlough me or make me redundant.

[babayjane67]

I'm not in the same room,I'm in the doorway.i just walk through when they're going out.
For your information former&phoenix I have mucked in plenty of times in my job's when it's been needed! I love both my job's&working with the kids!
I've been part of the implementation of changes with the teaching &ta staff.
There is no talk of redundancy at our school.if anything,they we always have a very hard time finding anyone that wants to do these jobs!
So no need to result to insulting people!