Deeply unpleasant neighbour with right of way over our land.

[05884124807521689064216a]

Sorry this is in the wrong topic. Couldn't find a legal section. Any lawyers about, I would appreciate some guidance. Having difficulty finding the right person as it involves mild harassment and a right of way. I've tried to condense but it's clearly not my strong point.

We recently moved into a home accessed by a lane belonging to a farmer. We have access over the farmer's part of the lane and he has right of way over the part of the lane on our land. It's the only way he can access the fields at the end of the lane. The lane ends on our land, with a field. The farmer ceremoniously drives up the lane every Sunday afternoon and reverses slowly back, without acknowledging us. Strange but fine. Beside our home is a cottage belonging to the farmer. It's occupied by a tenant of the farmer who is 'warden'. Technically he also has access over our land because he 'cares' for the land. (He doesn't care for the land, didn't care for the horses there over the winter and never needed to go down this lane until the weather got nice enough for walks, but that's beside the point). This warden seemed over-involved from the start and he's clearly lonely. He generated drama by encouraging us to go into one of the farmer's fields for a walk, then making out we were in trouble because we had done this. There were variations on this theme and we realised it was just drama being generated by someone who likes drama. Eventually we told him we would communicate directly with the farmer in future and we backed off. Then the trouble began.

We have to walk/ drive past his home to get to the road. He allows his dog to intimidate my children (who love dogs so this was quite difficult to achieve), rushes out with weedkiller if we walk down the lane, stands waiting for me at the top if I'm out on my own, throws our wheelie bins over the hedge and eventually blocked the lane completely with his car one night to rant at my partner. Much swearing, vague threats and apparently he has a side we don't want to see and we should feel warned. We haven't dealt with this before in our lives and yes, we felt threatened and worried.

He walks into the trajectory of my car when I drive past and then uses his outrage (because I don't slam the brakes on - why would I when he's not on the path?) to come and rage at us in front of the children as we're getting out of the car. He will 'accidently' swerve his wheelbarrow into our path as I'm walking the children up the lane. It seems mostly a cry for attention. He will now go and stand in our lane to have a smoke, just because he can. It doesn't sound like much and we've established that there's not enough here for police or civil action. Someone has mentioned a 'binding over of the peace' - does that sound like a possibility? We have horses, small children, dogs that could easily be harmed. I'm concerned he'll do something to my children's ponies and break their hearts. We found an elastic band around the neck of our dog the other day that had to be cut off by the vet and while it was probably our own fault, I hadn't seen that elastic band before. It's reached the point where we're quite happy for him to vandalise the wheelie bins if it keeps him occupied but obviously it's escalating because we continue to be a happy family going for walks and not bowing to him as monarch of the lane. I feel extremely stressed knowing he can pop up anywhere on our land and he doesn't stick to the lane, either. There's no point putting up a gate because he can just walk through it, as warden. He has also announced that if we meet his car when we're driving up the lane, we must reverse out onto the main road again if he's more than halfway up it. Sounds fair enough but the opening is on a blind corner that needs a mirror to get out with, even going the right way. I will not be reversing out of it but I'm concerned he'll scare the children and force us to abandon the car in the lane if we do meet him (it hasn't happened yet because he never goes anywhere).

So we're spending a fortune on CCTV, as the police advised, and keeping a harassment diary. We'd like to build a stone wall around the front of our property. It would be around 8 foot high and would border the part of the lane we own (which we're happy to write off for the sake of peace). It would cut off a great view but at this point, the only view we have is this man striding around anyway. I just want it all to stop. We spoke to the farmer to try and resolve this without a result. My partner has a condition that makes him vulnerable to COVID-19 if he's experiencing a flare-up and as these are related to stress, we'd like to move on from this issue as quickly as we can.

My questions:

• If you have right of way over a property for the purposes of caring for the land beyond, can you go there just to loiter and have a smoke?
  
• Is there a legal process whereby a judge could order that the lane be used for the purposes of accessing the land beyond only and not for going back and forth over our land (as he is currently doing)?
  
• Is there any legal reason why we wouldn't be able to build an 8 ft stone wall bordering the land on our own land? There would be no dwelling near it except our own home (and the warden's cottage, which is link detached to our farmhouse).
  
• Minor side issue - is the farmer within his rights to drive a half wild stallion up? He clearly can't get a headcollar on it and just drives it in front of him, at a gallop, from his quadbike. Without a heads up. Did I mention we have young children.
  
  I'll continue to hunt for the right solicitor to help with this but everyone seems to have experience of either right of way or harassment, but not both.
  
  Thanks so much if you have read this far.

[cjpark]

I'm so sorry you are experiencing this. I can only suggest what we have done with our unhinged neighbour.
We had a case of our neighbour harassing us verbally, recording us in our garden and our children, constant complaints to the council and shouting at any visitors to our property.
After it was clear that she was not amenable to conservation, we wrote her a letter notifying her of the dates and actions of her aggressive behaviour and reminded her what she was doing amounted to harassment in the eyes of the law. We requested that she had no more interaction with us or our family.
Obviously, the harassment escalated until my children started getting upset and spooked out by her filming them on the iPad. I called 111 and the police gave her a visit, found out that she had continued despite written requests from us and gave her some ASBO points. We now have a log number for her should she start again. That was a year ago and she hasn't bothered us since. Good luck!

[russ105]

If you need to speak to a solicitor about you can get free legal advice here: //freesolicitoradvice.co.uk. It's worth finding out where you stand.

[Bridehorror]

I wouldn't annoy the farmer, yes I'd say he's allowed to drive his stallion to his field, not ideal but I think legal.

[SoloMummy]

So the "warden" is renting the house from the farmer?

• If you have right of way over a property for the purposes of caring for the land beyond, can you go there just to loiter and have a smoke? Yes he has a right of way and can do this. It doesn't come with a list of can dos and not, just that he has the right to access as and when he wishes.
  
• Is there a legal process whereby a judge could order that the lane be used for the purposes of accessing the land beyond only and not for going back and forth over our land (as he is currently doing)? Not without removing the covenant and that would mean all parties would have to agree. (I have lived with this and very well versed in it).
  
• Is there any legal reason why we wouldn't be able to build an 8 ft stone wall bordering the land on our own land? There would be no dwelling near it except our own home (and the warden's cottage, which is link detached to our farmhouse). Yes on a residential property you can only fence or wall to a maximum of 6ft. Walls are expensive to have to take it down again!
  
• Minor side issue - is the farmer within his rights to drive a half wild stallion up? He clearly can't get a headcollar on it and just drives it in front of him, at a gallop, from his quadbike. Without a heads up. Absolutely he is. He could run a cattle of cows without notification. That's the beauty of the countryside! (again I'm from a farming family and the only issues are with cattle that need passports so you have to say where taking in case of tb).

[Al1Langdownthecleghole]

@SeaToSki

I dont have any official legal knowledge, but we have had some success with stopping harassment by doing the following. (Im changing terms to your equivalents)

We notified the farmer in writing that his tenant was breaching the terms of the deeds and more importantly was subjecting us to harassment and intimidation in our own home. Potentially even engaging in criminal activity. We quoted the legal statutes that covered the matter. We then said that we had been advised that we could hold the farmer personally liable for the behaviour of his tenant if it continued after he (the farmer) had been officially notified. We continued that we would have no hesitation in suing the farmer if the harassment continued. We allowed a 14 day notice period for the farmer to convey the seriousness of the issue to the tenant.

It clearly scared the bejabbers out of our farmer and the tenant was brought to heel very quickly. There was a lot of glowering, but no further ‘action’. He also moved about 6 months later. We think the farmer just realised he couldn’t trust the tenant to continue to behave and so moved him on.

I wanted to pick this up. It is likely that the warden will pay more attention to the farmer than to you. If there is a way to make the farmer responsible, I would do it.

Good luck.

[LazyDaisy10]

I know you said the farmer was unhelpful, but maybe some legal letters from a solicitor may wake him up a bit. I would legally keep the pressure on the farmer, why would he want the hassle of this deranged tenant?
What is or is there any relationship between them?
CCTV and a huge wall sounds necessary but it does sound very stressful

[cushioncovers]

Take any legal Action against the farmer that you can. Hit him where it hurts, his pocket. Be relentless, send more than one solicitors letter. He will listen then yes a big generalisation I know but all the farmers I've known are obsessed with it.

[Thisisworsethananticpated]

Some good advice

Re finding out what happened with previous tenants
Working the issue via the farmer who might be accountable for tenant
Working out the fear points for both , what are they possible scared of happening that will trigger this to stop

Sounds like you can’t up and leave right now , also agree to check the house insurance for legal cover

I can feel how scared you are, he sounds like a very menacing character

My strong advice is to do
Some homework before you spend ££ on a
Lawyer , I think you need legal advice but some stuff you can research first

[StrongTea]

How old is this man? Is he likely to retire soon? Must be so stressful trying to keep one step ahead of him.

[CluelessBaker]

OP I would be really wary of taking advice from anyone on Mumsnet who isn’t a property solicitor (and sensible solicitors wouldn’t give you advice in these circumstances!). Lots of people state as ‘facts’ what they feel must be true, without actually knowing the law behind it. The law of rights of access etc. is complicated and needs a professional adviser.

I would speak to a solicitor and get a feel for what your options are - I don’t want you thinking there’s nothing you can do because an armchair lawyer on mumsnet has a vague feeling about it.

[PicsInRed]

Did this family member you are buying the house off ever live in the house? Did they know the previous owners?

Was this transaction driven by you, or was the location chosen by the family member?

[Sushiroller]

I know he believes we've tried to lay poison under his car to kill his dog.

This man 100% did that to your dog.

Agree with others
As stage 1 engage the farmer. If you get no jot for the love of all things holy do NOT buy the house.

This guy sounds seriously unwell.

[Velvian]

In terms of the police, I have a feeling you will get further with the dog incidents than anything else, both the potential attack on your dog and the neighbour threatening you with his dog. Have you reported both of those aspects?

[Daisydoesnt]

OP I really really feel for you as a dog and horse owner your situation is literally my worst nightmare. I’d you don’t get any joy by putting pressure on the farmer I would move.

You said that it was very rare to find a property in your area where you could work from home, presumably have your ponies & horses at home. I suspect the reason that this place was in budget was because the previous owners were distressed sellers.

[Genevieva]

I am confused about what is being done by the farmer and what is being done by the tenant.

If you can find a way of recording these encounters I think it would add up to a case against the individual. I don't know how you could do that subtly. A phone in a jacket breast pocket with the camera positioned to look through a little hole?

The access should be governed by some sort of easement rather than being a right of way. Rights of way are usually about public access over private land. Easements extend rights to specific neighbours - like having a roof lean on a neighbour's wall or allowing access along a private lane. If the easement is for access only then it does not extend to loitering and I would imagine that this would be some sort of intensification of use that you can legitimately inform him is banned on your land. However, that may cause more harassment on parts of the lane that do not belong to you.

[Genevieva]

PS

If all of this is being done by the tenant then you might do well to have a chat with the farmer about the tenant's behaviour and inform the farmer that you will have to speak to the police and get a restraining order preventing him from coming near your home if he continues. I don't know how easy that will be but if the farmer realties that the tenant might not be able to look after the field and is harassing his neighbour then he might find a new tenant.

[PurpleHaze101]

poor you this sounds awful

we also have a right of way over our land - so our garden (if you think of it like a rectangle, so the short side) finishes against the back walls of a load of houses. In front of those walls and in the bottom part of our garden is a right of way that crosses along the entire width of the garden.

what we have done is do exactly as you are suggesting - build a fence in front of that right of way (so essentially now it's just a long passage - one side bordered by the walls and the other side bordered by our new fence).

the neighbours before us tried to put dense hedges in but it didn't work particularly well but in your case, i would definitely look to put something like a wall or more likely a hedge (that can grow as tall as you like!).

is this the only way to access your property? could you 'make' another driveway to the front of the house say? because then you could completely wall off the back and be done with it (don't give up your right of way, just cordon it off)

we still unfortunately need to drive up the right of way to get to the drive for our property so the fence doesn't run the entire way but we now have electric gates and cctv and it makes a huge difference (we too had problems with neighbours walking down the right of way, peering into the garden and maliciously reporting us to the council for all sorts of nonsense)

[user1494055864]

Just move

[Genevieva]

PPS

Build the wall. There is no legal impediment. The only consideration is whether you need planning permission.

And lastly, decide whether the half wild stallion is the battle you want to fight. I would stick to the harassment and the intensification of use.

[Intelinside57]

I'm a horse owner and I understand how wonderful it is to have them at home. But I'd move. I have several friends who have brought places because of the land who are in similar situations with farmers and other neighbours. It's a costly nightmare to try to take legal action. You are lucky, you don't own the place. I would say get out as soon as you can for your peace of mind and the safety of your animals. You can't shoulder this burden just because there is a vague understanding that you'd buy it at some future date. The housing market is starting up again now, start looking. Move the horses. Start looking for somewhere else to rent to live in.

[fodderbeet]

Do you know the history of where you are living? What exactly is a 'warden' - is it a legal thing or a local term? Does he still actively work on the farm or is he a retired farmworker with nowhere else to go? How big is the farm, is it a family farm or part of a bigger estate, is the farmer actively producing on a commercial unit? And when and why was your house sold off?

You might find that your house sale is the root of the problem, rather than actually you. It's odd to sell one half of a semi if you own all of the land around it, or are you living in his former buildings? Does the warden live in the original farmstead and you've moved into his converted shed as such with a few acres fenced off for a pony?

When you talk about him being on your land, do you mean in the paddocks that you own, or just on the lane? You need to think of the lane as a normal road that the farmer, his employees and anyone that needs to can use. You may technically own part of it but that's just to give you access to your house. It's essentially a road for access to fields as and when anyone needs it. Don't think of it as 'people on our land', they're not. Are the farmers fields arable? If so a weekly check is perfectly normal, you seem to think that he is checking his fields each week 'ceremoniously' just to annoy you.

The farmer can use the road as he needs to, your young children shouldn't really be on any road unsupervised, regardless of whether it's the bit that you 'own' any livestock and/or machinery can use that road at any time.

Your neighbour does sound worrying, but look at the bigger picture, you're living surrounded by fields and with space for your ponies, but it can't be all on your terms as your property basically has a shared access, and you have to share.

You've recently moved into the middle of a factory floor of food production, learn about what goes on around you and forget about owning a bit of the road. How long has your neighbour lived there, worked there? Have you even spoken with him, or the farmer?

And don't even think about building a bloody wall.

[userxx]

It's not as easy as just moving as the op will be dropping a family member who did them a massive favour in the shit. These people are bullies, in the wardens case an unstable bully, it sounds like a living hell.

[Ukholidaysaregreat]

How old is the tenant? Are they likely to die any time soon? Serious question! Cctv and harassment diary are a good first step. Ask previous owners. He will have been like this with them. Ask in the village if you know someone. Depending on the village it could be a relative of mad warden. When I had to make a harassment diary and I rang up to request one the lady finished the name of the person I was about to start making one for. It was before GDPR and showed me everyone who had lived near them had made a diary about them!

[HasaDigaEebowai]

Is there any legal reason why we wouldn't be able to build an 8 ft stone wall bordering the land on our own land? There would be no dwelling near it except our own home (and the warden's cottage, which is link detached to our farmhouse). Yes on a residential property you can only fence or wall to a maximum of 6ft.

I'm a solicitor (but not in property and its 25 years since I studied land law) and I also live in a house with a "lane" over which others have right of way (to pass and repass on foot or in vehicles for themselves and their assigns). I'd double check the point above. Yes you can't build an 8 ft wall on the boundary of your property but this wouldn't be on the boundary of your property, it would be between your garden and your lane i.e right in the middle of your land.

Ours has a chain link fence and very tall trees plus tall bamboo separating the garden from the driveway so that we hardly see the driveway. It still after ten years annoys the fuck out of me though if I see people strolling down our driveway walking their dogs etc, particularly since there is another public access to those properties (albeit less direct and not as pretty) so its really not necessary. Some of the neighbours and their visitors also think its fine to speed down the hill at over 60 MPH because they're inconsiderate wankers. The only thing you can do IME is to stop thinking of it as your land.

We are considering speed bumps (mainly to annoy people so much that they stop using it) on the bit that we don't need to use. But do check the point about the wall since you might find you can build it after all.

[fivebrokentests]

He's bullying you and you need to stand up to him. Tell him to fuck off. Tell him not to be ridiculous. Tell him that if he touches your fucking dogs again he'll see what happens. Guaranteed he'll back down. Always look directly at him and never back down. If he damages your bins, call the police. Insist thats they come out as you're worried for your safety and he will shit himself. If you spoke to the police the way you wrote this post then I'm not surprised they aren't taking it all that seriously. You seem intent on partially blaming yourself?

You don't have to live like this.