If non essential shops can open

[strugglingwithdeciding]

I missed briefing today as I'm a bit fed up watching them all tbh
I knew June would see the opening of some non essential shops etc but was hoping when this happened that we would see a little more relaxation in meeting friends or family ? But I can't see that anything was mentioned
Aibu that going to see some friends /family social distancing outside is more important than being able to go to primark for example ( although could do with some new clothes as mine have all shrunk during lockdown )
I preferred Ireland's meeting up to 4 so much better than our meet one other
When will we be given a little more freedom to meet some family / friends ?

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@Namechange have N Ireland opened non essential shops etc yet ?

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@kateandme you obviously haven't been to some of my local
Shops some of the social distancing is horrendous , they often have great social distances ques but once inside some are a free for all . I avoid mostly

[ceeveebee]

The full 50 page roadmap says they are considering options with SAGE re social contact, eg being able to mix with one other household in a “bubble”. The official review is due by Thursday so I would expect announcements then. The retail and school new is advance notice of intentions to give them time to prepare (and car retailers have been lobbying hard to be allowed to open)

[KingSheathBelle]

Arrange to meet in the High Street. Using your instincts.

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@KingSheathBelle so you mean arrange to meet my Nan in the high street ? As she can't get there she walks with a stick and cannot drive

[Namechangeapril20]

A lot of our decisions will be heavily influenced by both the Republica of Ireland and mainland UK due to our politics so we end up with a hybrid of both. Currently non essential retail falls under our step 2, which currently has no preliminary date but now that England have made their announcement something more clear for us is bound to follow. Also our steps arent as clear cut as the dates set out in Irelands plans. For example we have part of Step 1 in action regarding family contact, with updates to come in regards to when other points in step 1 will come into action. We also have our steps broken up into different sub categories, so work, retail, leisure, schools and social/family. It appears that we can move onto different steps in some categories while remaining in previous steps in others. So in theory we could be still sitting in our half step 1 for social/family (I.e. meeting up in groups of 6 outdoors but not yet allowed to meet up with family indoors yet but still pending - our current situation) but we could be in step 2 in regards to retail (I.e. non essential retail open with social distancing in place - following England). Its all very confusing, especially now with the split within the UK nations. We now have people here following 3 different sets of guidelines - some Englans, some Ireland and some Northern Ireland.

[Kljnmw3459]

I'm hoping they'll announce it soon. Even just allowing for social bubbles or groups of 5 -10 to meet up (eg 2 families). Or go for regional approach, like they've done in france.

[Namechangeapril20]

www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-recovery-plan

[LoveIslandVirgin]

In Northern Ireland you can meet up to 6 people outside while social distancing.

It’s all crazy though. You can stand in a long queue for the supermarkets or B&Q with strangers but you can’t officially stand the same distance apart with both parents or other family members?

Ring Dom up for one of his loopholes.

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@Namechangeapril20 well I want to adopt your plan I think I prefer it to ours

[HepzibahGreen]

You can stand in a long queue for the supermarkets or B&Q with strangers but you can’t officially stand the same distance apart with both parents or other family members?
But you can.
You can make your own decision. Do you really think someone is coming to arrest you if you go visit your mum and dad and sit in their garden?
I promise, it won't happen.

[Judiwench]

You can make your own decision. Do you really think someone is coming to arrest you if you go visit your mum and dad and sit in their garden?
I promise, it won't happen

Shouldnt, can't. Sure, you can break the rules, but there are some people who would like to follow some kind of guidance in the hope it will make a difference. We are all well aware no police officers are going to pop ip with handcuffs, but that doesnt mean there are not rules in place.

[Namechangeapril20]

Yes its definitely more clear cut, even without dates outlined. At least we have a sense of how we're moving forward and have realistic expectations now. I though BJs "sneak preview" for England was a bit patronising and is keeping people dangling on a string - people need to know now what they're likely to expect going forward. Even if meeting with family is weeks away, having that information will help them mentally getting there.

[PhilCornwall1]

Aibu that going to see some friends /family social distancing outside is more important than being able to go to primark for example ( although could do with some new clothes as mine have all shrunk during lockdown )

Yes, because the economy needs to be started back up, seeing friends and family doesn't achieve that.

As far as seeing friends and family is concerned, it's been going on for weeks and has probably increased over the last 2 to 3 weeks regardless of what the majority say on here. Pretty much everyone had visitors around here over the weekend with at least three households having people stay.

[MindyStClaire]

We didn't see anyone until the guidelines changed (also in NI) so we could see my in laws for the first time in over three months at the weekend. My parents are in ROI and restricted by distance so we know we won't see them til late July at best, four months after we last saw them, after two hospital admissions and counting for my dad, and 3 weeks after we'll have had another baby.

We're actually ok with that, it sucks but we have had clear communication from both the ROI government and the NI assembly setting out what they expect to be possible and when. It gives us something to aim for.

Boris and co not even mentioning seeing loved ones is completely heartless in my books. It may not be vital to the economy, but it's crucial to people's wellbeing and this is just another way they're making it clear they don't give a shit IMO.

Maybe there is a reason for Primark to open before you can have a cup of tea with your mum. But people are making massive sacrificies and they deserve to be told the reason, and an estimate of a timescale.

[peoplepleaser1]

@mindy, it's so primark and other stores stand a chance of not folding and their employees stand a chance of keeping their jobs. Why don't people see this from the POV of those whose livelihoods depend on shops?

Plus all this complaining about any importance being placed on keeping businesses afloat so that taxes can be paid. How else do we pay for the NHS, education, bailouts, furlough etc etc. All this comes from our taxes, Boris doesn't have his own chequebook.

[MindyStClaire]

it's so primark and other stores stand a chance of not folding and their employees stand a chance of keeping their jobs. Why don't people see this from the POV of those whose livelihoods depend on shops?

I absolutely do see that. But it's not like a choice has to be made between talking about shops or talking about meeting up with friends and family. Information and guidelines could be published about both.

Have you seen the Irish, Northern Irish and Scottish plans? All comprehensive, all with details on many facets of life, all cover both social and economic factors. It's not hard.

[peoplepleaser1]

@MindyStClaire I think I in some ways it's better not to say too much in advance, unless the subject being covered needs plenty of advanced notice as planning is needed and change needs to be made. So it makes sense for retail to be given this three week notice period.

Once plans are published, even with flexible start dates people start to gravitate towards the 'next change'. Also so much is being learned every single day which should be fed into all strategies. Scientists are learning from our own data and findings and glair of other countries. By holding off from making definite plans we can remain more flexible and react to new findings as they happen.

[MindyStClaire]

I don't particularly agree with you on that, I think people are mature enough to understand a message of "We expect to be able to make this adjustment by 1 July, but may need to postpone that if infection rates increase".

But that still doesn't preclude the government saying "We understand many of you are missing your family and friends, and the sacrifices you are making to stay away from them. As soon as the data indicates it is sensible to do so, we will relax to the restrictions to allow social gatherings, starting with small numbers outdoors. We know this matters to people, and so we are reviewing the relevant data as a matter of priority."

If they can't relax anything, or give a date now, fine. But acknowledge it.

[ceeveebee]

This is a direct cut and paste from the England roadmap

Social and family contact
Since 23 March the Government has asked people to only leave the house for very limited purposes and this has been extraordinarily disruptive to people’s lives.

In particular this has affected the isolated and vulnerable, and those who live alone. As restrictions continue, the Government is considering a range of options to reduce the most harmful social effects to make the measures more sustainable.

For example, the Government has asked SAGE to examine whether, when and how it can safely change the regulations to allow people to expand their household group to include one other household in the same exclusive group.29

The intention of this change would be to allow those who are isolated some more social contact, and to reduce the most harmful effects of the current social restrictions, while continuing to limit the risk of chains of transmission. It would also support some families to return to work by, for example, allowing two households to share childcare.30

This could be based on the New Zealand model of household “bubbles” where a single “bubble” is the people you live with.31 As in New Zealand, the rationale behind keeping household groups small is to limit the number of social contacts people have and, in particular, to limit the risk of inter-household transmissions.32

In addition, the Government is also examining how to enable people to gather in slightly larger groups to better facilitate small weddings.

Over the coming weeks, the Government will engage on the nature and timing of the measures in this step, in order to consider the widest possible array of views on how best to balance the health, economic and social effects.

[ceeveebee]

So they have acknowledged it and it is planned for phase 2, and so will be in Thursdays announcement

[ceeveebee]

(Obviously I mean that there will be an update, not that it will definitely be happening in this way as that is being decided on Thursday)

[begoniapot]

The virus transmits most readily wishing families and close co tact, not social distancing in shops.

If we could visit relatives in the open air but social distance then we should be able to do this soon.

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@Mindystclair exactly Ireland etc have it clear in their plans about all stages including socialising .where I am many are breaking the rules and mostly because they have no idea why it can't happen when they can sit in a park social distancing from strangers for hours ( and if can in happen and is managed in other countries ) and that there does not appear to be a clear plan going forward
If we knew by certain date we may be able to do certain things then you would wait that extra week or until that date , leaving it up in the air isn't good enough
Concise clear guidelines isn't too much to ask ,
The bubble isn't a great idea either much prefer Ireland's in every way

[strugglingwithdeciding]

@begoniapot but we could do this in the open air especially recently the weather has been lovely
But I can only meet one person at a time , admittedly I could then meet another 10 people as long as I do it one by one .
I'm not a single parent but have friends who are who have been stuck home with young children for weeks and can't meet the one person as there dc are too young to leave alone
My Nan can't get to a public place to meet someone but has a nice big garden with a side gate so could easily follow guidelines at home
If there's no further news thurs then I'm going my own way and will risk assess the situations myself .