How should children behave in public?

[GrannyBags]

Just been out for a meal with DH, DS and MIL. Pub restaurant, nothing posh. Fairly busy. A family came in and straight away the two children started running round, shouting and generally being disruptive. We ignored them, even when the smaller one bumped into our table. Middle aged couple sat next to us, noisy family on their other side. Woman obviously said something to her husband about the children. I didn’t hear what was said but the mother obviously did as she loudly announced ‘ Well at least my children are expressing themselves and not just glued to a screen’. Clearly this was aimed at DS who was watching videos on his phone. I know that he was being a bit anti social but at least he was quiet, he put it down when the food came and to be fair he doesn’t want to sit and listen to MIL describe her various ailments!
Have we now got to the point where disturbing other diners is seen as acceptable behaviour?

[DisorganisedOrganiser]

tiny, see I would find that really cute. It is Christmas. Lovely to hear children singing carols. It’s one of the best bits of Christmas!

[PhilomenaChristmasPie]

Oh, and the only thing that will keep him occupied is a screen. Horrible as it is, that's our reality. He usually plays anti-stress games on it.

[PhilomenaChristmasPie]

Oh, and he knows "the rules", but he can't always stop himself from disobeying them.

[tinyme77]

There were children loudly singing Christmas songs in the cafe today (Mum's thought that it was sweet rather than irritating so didn't tell them so be quieter). Luckily they left after a couple of songs.

[PhilomenaChristmasPie]

CherryPavlova he wouldn't be able to cope with the waiting and boredom whilst waiting for food, but he looks forward to going every year. It's not intentional bad behaviour, it's zero impulse control, and we have no way of helping with that at the moment. I'm on the waiting list for a CAMHS parents' workshop.

[Getitwright]

Good post Daffodil. It’s the sort of education set up I can remember, where schools could give some children the extra help, assistance and resources they required.

[Daffodil101]

Surely there’s some truth in what cherry says?

I work with disabled people in a professional capacity so I spend a considerable amount of time assessing how the environment can be best suited to their needs and wishes, and how to make reasonable adjustments.

I know of one young man whose parents want him in a mainstream school so that he is fully included. This has been tried now for three years. The school are saying they can’t keep him and other children safe, despite extensive adjustments (full time TA, conversion of a staff office into his own classroom).

The fact that they had to build him a classroom probably tells you that he is excluded rather than included. They do try to integrate him where possible but he finds it distressing. He goes into assembly but he screams until they allow him to leave. He’s developed some quite maladaptive strategies in order to be removed (screaming, biting) which does suggest a level of distress that I don’t think he should have to experience.

This is also distressing for his older brother to witness.

The LA have offered a place in an alternative school but his parents refuse because they want him included in mainstream. I feel so sorry for this child because he has no peers, no friends at all. It’s not ‘inclusion.’

Does this not prove that sometimes it’s not possible to integrate a child in the way parents might prefer?

Many years ago I worked in a wonderful special school that I think this young man would have loved. Like many special schools, it was closed down and the land sold off for housing. The children were robbed, in my opinion. The current system is much cheaper and we’ve all bought into the narrative that inclusion can always be achieved. It’s hard to know how to make it better, because any suggestion that a child can’t be fully integrated goes against the prevailing narrative.

[greenlynx]

I wouldn’t like children running around at the restaurant. It’s unsafe. I wouldn’t like to interact with anyone’s children taking orders or whatever other game they’re playing. It’s their parents job. A child or a teenager or even an adult on mobile phone/ tablet at a different table won’t bother me at all. Why should he/she? He’s not with me and I don’t know the circumstances.
My DD has additional needs. She could join conversation but not always. Believe me or not but she can’t join conversation with her GPs ( both about 80). It’s just impossible. it’s mostly about health problems (not colds and coughs) and very tricky emotionally (my DH struggles talking to them sometimes). So I actually don’t mind at all if she will be on her tablet or whatever leaving me free to manage a situation like this when we’re visiting.
It’s probably once in a 3 years when OP’s son was on his tablet at the restaurant and people’re so judgmental!

[Herbalteahippie]

YANBU. A firm word from a stranger usually leads some badly behaving children to stop. If said child invaded my space I just say ‘not everyone wants to hear your voice’ or ‘there’s other people here trying to eat please play nice’ it’s not the kids fault, it’s CF parents

[HoHoHoik]

CherryPavlova there is currently a hashtag running on Twitter titled #YouMightBeAbleistIf about all the daily micro-aggressions and casual ableism shown towards disabled people.

I suggest you read it, you may learn a thing or two.

I don't believe for one second that you work with disabled people but, if by some chance it's not a total fantasy, I sincerely hope you are closely supervised.

[GrannyBags]

@CherryPavlova
What on Earth are you on about?

[jamoncrumpets]

Oh she said Pizza Express, not Toby Carvery. Maybe these offending wankers just need a carb fix...

[jamoncrumpets]

A wanking 15 year old in a restaurant is still a CHILD Cherry. A wanking 25 year old isn't. But a wanking 25 year old might be severely autistic.

I'm pretty sure a 25 year old severely autistic man would not be sat in a Toby Carvery by himself tugging away.

Let go of that mental image, Cherry.

[hazeyjane]

Cherry, stop going on about children masturbating in restaurants, it's not a great look.

[EatingRoses]

@lizzie0869 - my unpopular opinion is that everywhere should have soft play attached. I don't have children but my favourite places to eat are pubs with soft play/wacky warehouse type things attached because the actual pubs are so quiet with no children running around because they're all in the soft play areas!

[Susiebluesy]

Cherry oh do shut up, stop trying to justify your apparent superiority, it’s still condescending

[Pop2017]

As parents we get judged for whatever we do.

Her kids shouldn’t be left to run wild in a restaurant. Personally it wouldn’t bother me too much as I’m used to loud annoying kids (my own 🤣) but from a safety aspect they shouldn’t and she should try and control them.

I’m the first to admit my two would struggle in a restaurant. They have autism and would get bored waiting for food so that’s why mcdonalds is much more our thing at the minute 🤣 If I had to take them to a restaurant I would definitely be taking an iPad to try and entertain them and encourage them to stay still.

From another point of view. My mother sounds like the woman you talk about. We were allowed to ‘express’ ourselves. If anyone dared Question it they’d get a mouthful. Thankfully it hasn’t affected me in the long run and I know how to behave in public.

[Lizzie0869]

@jamoncrumpets I have 2 DDs that are hyper, and DD1 has SN. Taking them out to restaurants was very difficult in the past, as they've always been hyper, so I really empathise with you and your DS. It has become easier now that they're 10 and 7.

The way we coped was taking them to pub restaurants with a playground or a whacky warehouse so that one of could entertain them whilst the other stayed at the table that we'd booked. Then we'd take them out for more running around.

Mostly when on holiday we've gone for self-catering, however, it's much simpler.

[lowlandLucky]

I managed to raise 3 children who were not allowed to run around a restaurant or screech at the top of their voices but then i did chat to them and listened to what they had to say. jamoncrumpets i understand your son as problems sitting still and regulating his voice and i wouldnt expect you to keep him at home bit dont get hacked off when other diners are not happy, they may have saved to have lunch out and object to a child runnig around and dont be surprised when the waiting staff are kess than happy at having to avoid your child whilst they try and do their job. Dont blame anyone else when your child ends up with boiling hot coffee over himself because he ran into someone

[SciFiRules]

Tough one. I'm father to two very boystous boys 3 and 6. I try to keep them quietly entertained when out but there probably have been times when they've annoyed others. I have carried one or other out before now wailing all the way - thankfully not often!

[Lizzie0869]

@Getitwright you're quite right, that sounds like a lovely family celebration. We've been to a few and our DDs have had a lovely time, as the adults with them included them and made them feel that they were a part of the special meal.

I really think the problem in the OP's situation was her MIL going on about her ailments. Other adults would find that annoying so of course an 11 year old boy would too.

[Getitwright]

I recently found myself at a family birthday party in quite a posh restaurant with family members with children. There was a two year old, a seven year old, a ten year old and a fourteen year old. Two year old was sat with parents, and fourteen year old sibling, bit fractious but had full attention of parents who did a fantastic job of laughing her back into the party. Her older sister helped as well. The other two were sat together, away from their parents but happily conversing with other adults, and both using colouring books. Other adults were entirely engaged with all the children, they happily sat in their places, got on with eating their meals, very much involved in conversations. It was a pleasure to be out with such lovely well socialised children to be honest, and something of a rarity for me, as we choose our eateries and timings at far more adult locations and times to be honest.

[platform9andthreequarters]

I have an almost 2 year old and we've been out a couple of times recently to eat with family. The first time was a bit unplanned, my parents took him to a restaurant rather than for a quick bite at Costa or equivalent that I suggested, in a very busy shopping centre and he didn't want to sit down. I resorted to YouTube on my phone fairly quickly, as he was tired and irritable and I'd just finished work and didn't have the energy.

The second time the meal was planned a month in advance, for his naptime (which I wasn't too happy about), I took a bag full of snacks and colouring, books and little cars for him. We were there just over 2 hours in total, he got down from the table a few times for a little wander (when someone accompanied him) and played with a car around my feet a bit, and then I resorted to YouTube for the last 10mins when he'd just had enough.

In an ideal world kids would sit and play/colour/chat happily everytime but I don't know any kids that would do that indefinitely everytime. You also don't know whats going on in a parents/childs life that maybe that day they just couldn't manage it. That being said, I would be a bit judgy about an 11year old on a screen at a table , I'd hope by that age they would be able to join in with conversation more. But I don't have an 11 year old so I'm sure I'll eat my words then.

[Southmouth]

I don’t think you’d done anything wrong by allowing your DS to watch something quietly. I’d much prefer this than children running about being noisy, it’s not only annoying for customers but it’s dangerous with hot food and drinks coming out to tables all the time.

My children are young, and it can be a long time from ordering to food being on the table, they know they are to sit quietly and if they do start to get a bit loud then they are politely reminded to quieten down as other people are trying to enjoy there food. I have also let them watch something with the volume very low on my phone whilst they are waiting and then it goes away when the food comes out.