Child maintenance, am I in the wrong?

[RR94]

For a little bit of background I'm 24 and have a 5 year old and 3 year old with my ex. We broke up when child 2 was 6 weeks old. Although horrific at the time we managed to have a good parenting relationship afterwards and have always shared child care costs relatively equally.

I work 4 days a week - I pay 40% of childcare and my ex pays 60% (as I'm working for one day less). I have the kids 9 days of every 14.

My ex has been with his fiance for 2 years and she is pregnant.

I have been with my boyfriend for around 18 months. We are moving in together in June.

My ex now wants to reduce how much he pays as my boyfriend is 10 years old than me, has no kids and earns a significant amount more than my ex (and me). So he sees no reason to still pay as much. I said they are still his kids etc but his response was 'you wont have to pay for anything with the house or shopping when you live with him'. In my view this is none of his business....

Am I being unreasonable here?

[RR94]

Sorry my ex is paying his COST of the children. If he had them 50% of the time he'd have to pay. Whats the solution? I'd be paying an extreme amount in childcare. He could go to 4 days as well?

Children should be 50/50 thats what we had agreed previously - it's not my fault he couldn't deal with a 1 year old on his own. I'm not asking him to take them on expensive holidays (or even buy there clothes) literally pay childcare and his share of activities.

I've always done what I think is best for my kids and that has often included whats best for him and best for my kids relationship with there Dad. My point about changing the days is that it's a massive financial sting if I paid 100% nursery and after school club and everything else.

I think most people are fully aware £93 (or £85) would never cover the costs.

We had agreed a reduced amount from September - where the kids go to his Wednesday night to Sunday every other week and Saturday or Sunday the other week. I work a 3 day/5 day working pattern - so he was having them for longer on my long week. With us paying 50/50 childcare and activities.

This is more about nursery. Obviously I will buy all school uniforms, pay for all the school trips etc like I always have. My point is theres 5 months and he wants to change the payment AS OF THE 15th APRIL. So no real prior warning (before anyone says the baby is due in September also)

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

If childcare is £800, less from September and the care is pretty much 50/50 then him paying £93 a week is pretty much half the childcare any way. Food bills you will both have given the shared care and presumably you get the child benefit which easily covers clothing costs.

Activities you could discuss between you, depends on who enrolled them.

Changing his days when he's already arranging contact to suit your working pattern seems very petty and unfair on the children. You do realise he doesn't have to pay the childcare costs if you do that?

[RR94]

Nursery for one of my children costs £800. The other childcare costs £175 per month.

He isn't arranging contact to suit my working patterns. I've amended my days to fit what he wants to do - in the same way I've amended them previously.

I'm obviously not going to change his days - I acomodate him for my kids.

[mrsm43s]

Look, there's two ways that child costs can be shared either

• all costs are shared 50/50
  or
  -a maintenance payment is made from the NR parent to the resident parent to compensate for the fact that the RP is paying all the child related costs.
  
  In this situation with 9 day/5 day shared care, BOTH parents need to provide a home for the children and BOTH parents provide clothes, heat and food for the children (slightly more OP than ex due to day splits) and child care is shared 60/40 with ex paying the largest part. Without maintenance at all, I would say they are sharing costs equally TBH. When ex is paying maintenance, he is likely paying well more than his half share of the combined costs of the children.
  
  The OP needs to be careful, because if she pushes him, he could revert to CMS calculation which would likely mean he pays far less.
  
  I think its grabby for OP to expect her ex to pay half of all the child related costs and then expect maintenance on top - I can't think why she would be entitled to maintenance when costs are shared either in ££ or in providing a home/food/light/heat etc for the children. This is not an absent father situation - he provides care and the associated costs on a 35:65 ratio.

[RR94]

After reading the responses I'm curious as to 'how much' people feel a parent should pay - my view has always been 50/50 regardless of how much time (meaning if one person has the children 90% of the time they get 40% back...)

Is the general view you should pay 100% of when you have your kids/when things are incurred surely thats illogical when one parent is making more of the financial sacrifice. Along with the considerable more solo parenting.

[itsnotso]

I'm afraid the best option will be to re-negotiate something with him, as the CMA won't be on your side. I'm owed £18k in arrears, ex pays £93 a week with £3 of that covering the arrears. The CMA do not take into account any childcare payments as that is totally up to you if you utilise them. My childcare is £240 a month term time, just short of £600 in the holidays. Then there's uniform, school trips etc, yet the payments do not increase.

[Inliverpool1]

I told ex if he didn’t pay 50% of childcare costs I wasn’t prepared to have the child, that simple and I meant it. Every other weekend and4 weeks per year can just as easily apply to the mother as well as a father. Ex shit himself and has being paying ever since.

[Blewbird]

@RR94 I think you're in danger of winding yourself up here. Running a moral argument is never going to work. You realistically need to understand your legal position and do the best you can with it. Or he's likely to just move to the CMS amount which would mean you'd be down quite a bit.

[eclipse1808]

My DP took a massive hit in earnings (£280 p/w after tax) and was paying his ex £200 a week for his son because she used to get funny about it. I was on mat leave and we had to live off £953 a month for a year with a baby until I went back to work. When I got a gift of £300 from my parents towards baby things I had to give his ex £150 of it to ‘pay what we owed’. CMS said £18 a week at that time and we had him 5/14 too.

She had the audacity to stop us having him when I put my foot down and said DP was putting his first son well before his second and we went down to £75 a week which we still couldn’t afford. She used to ask for half towards clothes, school uniform and trips too. Some women are given everything to them on a silver platter and still aren’t happy. You presumably have a comfortable amount of money to live off, he’s having another baby who requires money too. I had to try to re-establish my breastmilk after 2 weeks of stopping because I didn’t have £10 for formula. You don’t know what their financial situation is. Not saying you’re one of these women but I can totally see where he is coming from. If your DP earns alot he will be paying the majority of your mortgage / bills. Give him a break

[eclipse1808]

Oh she also has a new partner, was claiming single so she didnt have to work after mat leave with her second baby and kept the house that was 50% paid for, for free when he left

[eclipse1808]

His wages before taking the hit were only £1800-2000 a month so we should never have been paying £200. When he first left he wanted to provide a good life for his son but couldn’t keep that up. To do that he lived in a grotty house share and sold his car. You don’t know he’s still earning that, and if his DP doesnt earn alot, you should definitely accommodate his request of paying less

[Inliverpool1]

eclipse1808 - why on earth would you have a 2nd baby with someone who can’t afford his first ?

[TriciaH87]

Your partners income does not come into it. Him having a new baby will reduce amount according to cms as he needs to support all 3. Sit and talk it through but go on their site and put in details of his income and see what the amount is. If his paying childcare on top that will be scrapped if they take over. So it's worth looking at what they would make him pay and what his offering to pay.

[SkyBillingIssue]

I get £120 a month! I think £98 a week is a dream!!!

[FunkyKingston]

Your partners income does not come into it. Him having a new baby will reduce amount according to cms as he needs to support all 3.

This, he should have just been upfront and said that his income is finite will now have to support three children not two, rather yhan coming up with nonsense about the op's boyfriend's salary.

[Eustasiavye]

I would second avoiding cms at all costs they are useless.
My ex pays less than 10% of his income.
He has reduced his payment because his new wife has lots of kids, non of them his and she receives child maintenance from their fathers.
My ex never had the kids and pays zero towards anything else.
He has also been allowed to miss payments, pay when ever he feels like it etc.
They contacted him months ago to 'ask him to pay his arrears'
Seriously I wish I could be so blase about paying taxes. It is a joke.
The latest good news I have is that I will probably have to go to the system where I am charged a fee every week so that cms can collected the maintenance directly.
On top of this I had to pay to use the cms because my ex refused to pay one single penny towards his children.
Anyone who thinks it is acceptable for a parent to contribute only 10% of their earnings towards the care of their children and never do anything else for them needs shooting.

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

OP cut your stress and make a claim for universal credit. On your wage and childcare costs, you would get a significant payment. A quick calculation (making some assumptions) would give you a payment of £450 a month.
Delay moving in with your partner until your costs lower.

[Desmondo2016]

Once me and my second husband got together our combined income became family money, the same if the kids were his. I wouldn't have had it any other way. In reality I paid for my children regular payments, phones, dinner money etc but he covered more of the non child related expenses to compensate. We earned a similar amount at the time.

I'd make an amicable agreement with ex, then sort out your new family's financial structure fairly too.

[AfterTrentham]

Out of interest, if a dad is paying CMS, what else is he expected to pay for? Presumably he still pays for clothes or childcare that are needed on his time? Is it just that he doesn't help cover other expenses, like childcare on Mum's time, or school trips?

[lyralalala]

Out of interest, if a dad is paying CMS, what else is he expected to pay for? Presumably he still pays for clothes or childcare that are needed on his time? Is it just that he doesn't help cover other expenses, like childcare on Mum's time, or school trips?

In my experience nothing.

[YourSarcasmIsDripping]

Out of interest, if a dad is paying CMS, what else is he expected to pay for?

Legally it tends to be just CMS. Some women might get an extra allowance in the divorce if for example the dad is a really high earner and she stayed at home to facilitate his career.
But even with CMS, plenty of men quit jobs, work cash in hand, are self employed and declare much less than they earn etc and pay a lot less than they should. Some pay nothing. CMS just drag their feet and shrug their shoulders.


There are men that expect their ex to provide clothing at theirs and even food. Sometimes even money so they will take the kids somewhere.

It all comes down to what they can afford and how much of a selfish twat they are.


Ideally the parents should reach an amicable and fair compromise between themselves. In practice..you work with what you've got.

[Bankofenglandfiver]

Sorry OP but you have 2 choices.

Take the reduced amount he is offering or go through CMS.

[Musereader]

I wouldnt be expecting half of all child care costs, i would expect half of what is left after any tax credits, i get 524 towards 700 per month of childcare costs on a wage of 20k, so in theory what dd costs is half the remaing costs (88) and half food and clothing costs. About 300 a month probably.

What i get is 29.11 per month. And this month not even that.

What you are getting is much better than cms so negotiate, but don't throw rhe baby out with the bathwater by souring the relationship over it

[Felford]

OP do you claim tax credits or universal credit? These are for help with childcare costs which ex presumably doesn't get when he pays for his days.

[MaybeNew]

I think the OP is getting a hard time here. In my experience, it is usually the mother who takes a career hit once a couple have children. If she is working part time to facilitate her Ex’s career, then of course she will earn less and can reasonably expect her Ex to give her some recompense. The idea that a man is some sort of hero because he pays CMS is a cruel joke. Culturally, we should be horrified by men who don’t pay for their children, not be making excuses for them. My DF would not pay for me, went on to have more kids who he wouldn’t pay proper maintenance for either. He’s a selfish pig. The irony is that he wonders why none of us want to spend time with him.

Oh and the idea that because the OP’s new partner has more money, then he should contribute to the Ex’s kids is also highly unreasonable. It could put the new relationship under a lot of strain.