To not want my 7 year old to move to another country with his dad

[Digestivescusturds]

My ex husband has always been a bit adventurous...and a bit mental if you ask me. In August he plans to move to Spain, not permanently, just for a year. He told me and DC a few months ago. DS1 is very upset about the thought of not seeing his dad for a year and wants to go with him. There’s no way that’s happening but ex said a few weeks ago maybe he could. A few days he told me this could happen if DS really wanted to and I said yes. There’s plenty of schools in the area apparently. He’s a great dad, since we broke up last year he’s had them at weekends, comes to see them most days really. Of course he would be perfectly capable of looking after his son. But he’s only 7, I don’t like the thought of him being so far away from home, I don’t like the thought of being away from him for so long. Going to a school where they speak a different language, it would be harder for him to learn or make friends. I’ve told both of them there’s no way this is happening, I just want other people’s opinion on whether I’m doing the right thing

[DragonMummy1418]

Well that would be a hell no, over my cold dead body from me!

What if he decides he likes it there and wants to stay permanently? You may never see your DS again!

[AskBasil]

I don't know, maybe I'm just very cautious, but I am staggered by how oblivious some people seem to be, to the fact that life has a momentum that you can't always predict and that straightforward, simple plans for a positive experience, may simply get derailed and go off in a totally different direction. The fact that some people have done stuff like this and it's been wholly beneficial is great; but that's no guarantee that someone else doing it will have the same positive experience.

Even choosing the wrong school for a kid can have a really negative impact on their development and outlook on life, sometimes for years of their childhood, sometimes into adulthood. I'm not talking about exam results, I'm talking about their views on the world, their self-esteem, their ability to form relationships with other kids, the way they see themselves etc. In short, their emotional and psychological well-being and health.

It's not that I don't think this sounds like a great opportunity; it does. But the problem is, the possibility that your child's happiness could be seriously disrupted by leaving his mother and siblings for a year, is such a serious risk factor, that it cannot easily be dismissed. Cultural and educational opportunities are great; but they do not outweigh the long term security and stability of a child.

[TheVermiciousKnid]

Hold on. After Brexit it might not be so easy for him to just move to Spain for a year ...

[expatinscotland]

He's a selfish arse, not a 'great dad'.

[golondrina]

I live in Spain. Spanish schools are definitely not much better than the UK. In fact, the Spanish education system ranks very low compared to other countries and has one of the highest dropout rates in Europe.

[BrendasUmbrella]

The sad fact is that every single person here would be giving totally different advice if it were the mother going to Spain.

I assume you're new here. Women who post threads considering moving their children away from their fathers are always torn a new one. It's very disapproved of - and that's just moving out of the county, not the country...

[nooka]

I think no was the right answer at this time too, and the dad, even if he is a good father, approached it in a lousy way. This is not the sort of decision to be taken by a seven year old. International moves need a lot of thought and planning with significant potential to go wrong. We moved to another English speaking country when our children were 7 and 8 and it was very hard for them, even with both parents and both siblings all together. Many people told us what a great adventure it would be for them but ds in particular found it very hard, he left his good group of friends behind and didn't form new close friendships for several years (in fact we are pretty sure he was bullied in the first school we moved them to). Send him over for a month in the summer, with no risk of school disruption and a much lower risk of non return. He'll likely get the same benefits of experiencing a different culture (although in my experience children forget most of their experiences at this age pretty quickly).

[Wanderlusting99]

Glad to see you've already decided no, I would give serious thought to the summer holidays if your son wants to, 6 weeks is a long time to be immersed in another country as opposed to a holiday, as a family my parents (teachers) used to take us abroad for 4 out of the 6 weeks holiday every year, not a beach type holiday but one year we might travel around Germany, the next Sweden, it was amazing although as my username might suggest I have real troubles staying still now as an adult when there is so much of the world haven't had a chance to experience yet.

[Staying]

People, the father decided to leave the country, leave is 7 year old (and 2yr old, but we're talking about the elder) behind. Then when DS7 said he'd miss his dad so wants to come, instead of saying, "Don't worry DS, Spain isn't far away so I'll still be coming back to see you lots and maybe you can visit on holidays" he told him he could come and live with him if your DM agrees. Putting all the potential resentment in her and all the "fun parent" on him.

And actually, what were his plans for seeing both his kids? This is a parent who sees his kids pretty much daily (who gets labelled as "good" for this) and then decides to stop that overnight.

OP I don't know when he's leaving but I'd be inclined to let DS7 go for extended holidays in the summer. There are often holiday programmes for kids locally and if EXDP has to work, this could be a great way of DS7 being immersed in the language and meeting other kids. However, I'd make sure he had at least a week (ideally two in the summer) back home before school starts. Firstly so he settles back to the completely different routine and secondly do you could have some time to play "Disney mum" to balance things up a bit!

What you'd need to do is have in writing that you agree to DS7 being with him for the time with the date of return being clear and written (and certain EU countries are strict about seeing this paper from single adults and kids - I had to show one in The Netherlands last year, but not sure about Spain). It means that under The Hague Convention, if DS were not to be returned by then, it would legally classify as kidnapping. It all sounds a bit scary but it's a) just a piece of paper with a few dates and passport details written essentially and b) will give you piece of mind. It doesn't sound like EXDP would do that deliberately but it does sound like he'd be capable of getting to the end of the holiday, hearing DS saying he wants to stay and then just agreeing to be nice dad.

[Pengggwn]

The 'perfect time' to go to another country is when he has a 7 year old and a 2 year old? The mind boggles. He is a selfish, selfish man. He is happy to separate his sons and separate his son from his mother, not because he has to go to Spain, but because he would rather be there than here, parenting both his children. Arsehole.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Word of warning for you OP.

If he goes with his dad, after a few months he will be ‘habitually resident’ in Spain. And if his dad won’t bring him back there will be nothing you can do about it. The courts will keep him where he is habitually resident.

Do NOT give up residency.

If he wants to spend some time there he can go in the holidays. Or with you.

I know many women (have spent plenty of time in expat communities) who let their kids go on holidays with dad and never saw them again. And before you say ‘oh but he’d never...’ only one or two of those women had any inkling that it would happen.

[thatmustbenigelwiththebrie]

I think if the kid wants to go - let him. It is a good opportunity and if he doesn't like it, he can come home. It's Spain, not the moon.

[Obi1Kenobi]

I would let your EX go to Spain for a year and get himself settled in. He may get ‘holiday happy’ (if he is inclined to do this kind of thing) for a few months and maybe once he has properly settled in bring your son over for a visit. That’s a compromise but make sure you get your legal papers sorted and that they are recognised and validated in Spain.

[Topseyt]

It would be a flat out and out NO from me.

I'd worry about the legal implications of things like the Hague Convention, as well as the fact that this will split DS up from his siblings.

It seems like playing with fire to me. I wouldn't even consider it, and if that makes me a selfish old goat then so be it.

I'm amazed so many in this thread seen to support this idea.

[Lweji]

@Mylittleboopeep

Take a deep breath. Count to 1000 000.

[Digestivescusturds]

Why is he going to Spain you demand. Why indeed? This is the OP's second broken relationship as she has older DC with different man. How do we know what caused the split.
Wow slightly rude. Yeah understandably you don’t know but are you trying to say he could be moving to Spain to get away from me? Because I’ve had two relationships end? I’m sure plenty of people have been in more than one relationship in their adult life

[Digestivescusturds]

@Incredulousme I do still think he’s a great dad, maybe not the greatest decision as a parent but I understand why he wants this. Yes part of the reason I don’t want him to go is for selfish reasons because he’s my child, I’ve been almost always been by his side or not too far away for the past 7 years although many people have said Spain isn’t that far away it feels like worlds away compared to the other side of town at his dad’s house. Even though I completely trust his dad to look after him I do worry about something happening and not being there to protect him. Yet another part of me really wants him to go, have this amazing experience. This is why I keep thinking I’ve made up my mind and then changing it again because I know whatever decision I make I’m probably not going to be completely happy with it

[ashbah1980]

Not hypocritical at all. His choice to move, not mine or the DCs. Therefore his problem to find a way to see his DC on their birthday. Wouldn't have a problem with say spending the morning with them and then he paying for them to fly over to spend the rest of the day with him- not at all. But it was his choice to move.

[Mylittleboopeep]

Ashbah

No chance of you not seeing your kids on their birthday, but it's perfectly ok for their dad not to see them if he can't get over.

Mumsnet is full of double standards. A child's place is with his mother, mother must come first unless she want to return to work FT and then she expects dad to do equal child care. Only equal when it suits though eh

Full of hypocrites

[corythatwas]

I am a mother and I don't for a moment think dh would have let me take one of our children out of the country for a year, away from their sibling and away from me, without putting up a bloody good fight- and quite right too! To me, a good parent is one that strives to keep things as normal and easy as possible for the children post divorce, even if that does mean giving up on their own dreams.

As for becoming fluent in another language- how long do people think that fluency will last once he is back home if there is no mechanism for retaining the language? If he ever does come home, that is; as other posters have pointed out, it will be much harder to ensure he does after he has been resident in another country for a year.

[Obi1Kenobi]

My head screams no but my heart says wow what an adventure. Why not? Get a damn decent solicitor to write up a custody agreement between you and your partner for that 1 year and then make sure it’s also recognised by the Spanish judicial system otherwise you may never get your son back.

[ashbah1980]

My ex lives in Ireland.

He catches a overnight ferry home on a Friday night once a month and stays with his parents until the Sunday and goes home. Kids stay with him from around lunch time on the Saturday until Sunday evening. Spend 5 nights with him over half term and half other holidays and we alternate Christmas. No chance of me not seeing my kids on their birthday so he comes over if he can.

Flights from Spain return can be brought for under £100. I'm sure if he budgeted he could come and see his DC once or twice a month if he's that arsed

[Mylittleboopeep]

Anyone would think this dad is a danger to his DS the way mumsnet have denounced him as selfish, going off on a jolly, uncaring, may refuse to return him etc.

How dare he even think of having a life because he has kids, how dare he have dreams. Parents can't have dreams....god no! He must live on his exes doorstep and be the dutiful dad.

Have actually read the words "follow your dreams OP, take your dream job" but for a dad, no such send off

Someone throw this man in prison for wanting to do something different.

Why is he going to Spain you demand. Why indeed? This is the OP's second broken relationship as she has older DC with different man. How do we know what caused the split.

Go on MNERS I bet you already have him down as a wife beating cheat.

Let your boy go OP because both he and your ex will hold it against you one day for stopping their adventure. You are depriving two people of the chance of a lifetime for your own selfish reasons.

[Lweji]

The sad fact is that every single person here would be giving totally different advice if it were the mother going to Spain.

Actually, no. I've advised women not to go, particularly if not for a very strong reason.

[Lweji]

Definitely don't allow your child to move from the country.