Pulling up sons nursery? Am I wrong ?

[Glitterzzz]

So my son 22 months has been in nursery two mornings a week for around 4 months. I’m very happy with his general care and his key worker.. there are some worries about his development which is not a shock to me, in fact I made it clear upon him starting what my initial worries were...

What I have noticed though is they are quick to jump the gun. For example they tried out messy play with my child.. he was resistant as this was his first time doing so ( shoot me I
Don’t do messy play art and craft) they automatically deemed him ‘ to have issues with messy play/ possible sensory to textures ) this made me worry when they told me this
But low
And behind the next time they tried he did it and has joined in ever since with every kind you can imagine :-)

Last time I collected him he hadn’t been himself that day which I warned them when I dropped him in. Upon collecting him I’m told ‘ he clearly has struggles with unfamilr people in his environment and we could really see that today ‘ again I felt this was a super strong statement to say... turns out 3 students went into the baby room today and my child wasn’t impressed... given their strangers and he wasn’t him self ... again does this mean they can say ‘ clearly struggles with unfamiliar people in his environment ‘

It just made me feel uneasy. It also clearly contradicts a SALT report we got in just last week. I emailed the manager and said that I didn’t think it was fair to give serious statements like that about my child
Or any child. That feedback or concerns should
Be based on typical repeated behaviour that they might display a number of times not just once ...

We batted emails back and forth and I was told that I had misunderstood what the keyworker had meant by ‘ struggles’. I don’t think I did. She clearly said ‘ he struggles very much with unfamiliar people in his environment ‘ after one off day with 3 strange students in the room.. I could understand if she said he found it hard today, wasn’t sure about the students, it was her wording ...

Am I wrong or right to say to them they need to think of how they are feeding back to parents? And that if they wish to raise issues then I would ask it’s based on a behaviour he is showing typically and on
More than one occasion ?

Feeling weird about taking him back later this week ...

[Labradoodliedoodoo]

The thing is that these staff won’t have specialist knowledge about autism and other conditions. They will however have a gut feeling and some knowledge of what’s NT and what’s not. It’s fine for them to flag concern and it would be wrong if they didn’t make observations - they will be doing this with all the children. Yes they need to be a bit more considerate in the way they express these observations as it must be difficult for you to come to terms with the possibility that your son might have SEN. It might be worth you questioning further when they make these statements. So in the same conversation ask questions ‘has he been wary of strangers before then? When? what happened in details?’ Is this a one off or typical of his behaviour?’ Try to get to the bottom of what’s being expressed and try not to be easily offended. They see more of him then the play specialists, so I think their observations are valid also. Just as your observations are valid. All children have their quirks and strange moments. Children are crazy creatures. You might meet proper specialist knowledge as your son travels through the system, he’s still very young now. They all develop differently.

[Iwasjustabouttosaythat]

Yorkshire, only because op has said her son took a while to settle, will be upset about changing nurseries, and she feels bad about changing him. Of course they’re idiots but if he’s happy there and they get their act together then why put the child through that kind of stress?

[Coyoacan]

They sound appalling actually. Glad you are moving him. My dgd changed nurseries and settled in better within two days than she had ever settled in the first one.

As for not wanting to get mucky, my db so much hated getting mucky my dm says she had to potty train him at three months as he hated a dirty nappy so much. He is now an elderly gentleman who has never had any special needs.

[yorkshireyummymummy]

Sorry iwasjustabouttosaythat but why on earth would glitter want to give them another chance?
Personally, them diagnosing ‘mild mild autism’ did it for me and I wouldn’t have taken him back after that. Who the hell do they think they are with their cod psychology diagnosing your boy with something a GP won’t diagnose??
I would change nurseries immediately and I would be reporting them to whatever body checks them ( is it OFSTED? I can’t remember) as the unprofessionalism they have shown is shocking,
Send your little boy to somewhere he can be a little boy , playing and not being judged by a loads of idiots with ideas above their Station!
And ,he sounds just normally perfect to me.

[Lofari]

Fuck me sideways these people sound ridiculous!! And I say this as a parent to a 2 and a half year old who is showing major signs of autism and has an assessment at the end of the month.
Very unprofessional on their part OP.

[Iwasjustabouttosaythat]

Sorry to hear they’re being so unprofessional. Maybe you could try one more day and see if they treat you the same way?

We’ve been through something similar with DS at preschool. His teacher kept mentioning things that could be associated with ASD but not listening to my responses. She said, “he doesn’t like loud noises and covers his ears”, I said well actually it was just during that song and he doesn’t like that song. Just several examples like this that didn’t take his personality into account. I’d warn her that he’d be grumpy if he was getting over a cold or something, she would nod then tell me he wasn’t very sociable that day. Well duh.

So she recommended we see a paediatrician and wrote a big letter of her concerns to take along. She actually wanted to talk to the paediatrician on the phone while we were there but thankfully she was on holiday that week.

The paediatrician laughed out loud at her letter and said she sees this all the time. She said teachers have issues with any kids who act slightly out of the ordinary. They think it’s always ASD.

So after I paid for that and she confirmed DS isn’t on the spectrum I called the preschool and talked to her boss. I said I was a bit annoyed and she said fair enough but parents get much more upset if we don’t say anything than if we do. Hmmm.

The last thing the paediatrician said to me was “play the game” with the preschool. She said thank them and make the teacher feel smart for picking up on “something” which just happens to be DS’s cute quirks. So I did that. And they were all very nice. Made a bit of small talk where I mentioned buying DDs new dresses and that DS wanted one too. So now she’s hinting he must be transgender. 🙄

Happily he has a much better teacher next year. I think some of them go into it thinking they’re going to change the world and end up being yelled at and cleaning up poo all day. Maybe making up diagnoses keeps it tolerable? It’s a problem
I keep hearing about.

[Glitterzzz]

He isn’t on free childcare we pay for it x

[Glitterzzz]

Quite possible they were looking harder which is fine however it’s not okay to then start to chuck out random diagnosis / guessing possible diagnosis etc etc ... x

[Notonthestairs]

I think you should email them and set out exactly what went on this afternoon and how disappointed you are that the staff have chosen to act this way. They over stepped the mark and then were offended when you pulled them up on it!

And I am a parent who resisted a nursery referral which ended up with ASD and learning difficulties diagnosis - which basically made my DD's life a thousand times easier from an early age. I couldn't thank them more. So I am pro nurseries intervening where they feel they need to. Your nursery on the other hand seem to be looking for issues rather then just getting to know your child better and monitoring slowly.

[thethoughtfox]

Expect more from a nursery.

[thethoughtfox]

You are entirely right. My dd is like this: needs time to get used to new people or try new activities. I put this in the information I gave them when she started so they can take this into account and not expect too much of her. Now new staff approach her gently or let her approach them and they show her new activities and encourage her to join in but don't push it.

[cansu]

I think you should move him. I think that nursery staff and some sencos can be very zealous and sometimes v inappropriate in the way they deal with stuff. I remember complaining about he number of 1:1 working with my dd who has asd. I then found my letter of complaint in my dd school records. The senco had put relationships not important as dd cannot make relationships with others. I was utterly appalled as my dd absolutely has likes and dislikes and relationships with others. It was just awful. Point being that people can be ignorant twats. Move him.

[ObscuredbyFog]

Backtracking a bit, you said in your OP,
there are some worries about his development which is not a shock to me, in fact I made it clear upon him starting what my initial worries were...

So is it not possible they were paying more attention and looking for things to report to you because you had raised concerns initially?

[RhodaBorrocks]

Use read all you updates and this us so not on. They have been extremely unprofessional throughout thus whole thing.

My DS has ASC and due to circumstances beyond our control went through 3 private nurseries before he started school. Each one noted he was shy, slow to adjust to change and disliked certain things like loud noises and finger painting.

They never once tried to diagnose him. Instead they supported him to try new things. He went from afraid to make marks on paper to drawing 3D images by the time he got to reception.

When he was at school, he identified the same issues, but again wanted to just try and support him. It was me that first suggested ASC and went to the GP for a referral. I was right, but it didn't change what support school were giving as they were already doing what was needed.

They understood it was their place to support him and facilitate his development, not play armchair psychologist and overstep their remit.

This nursery have gone about thus in an incredibly heavy handed and unprofessional way, even refuting a professional's opinion. I hate the attitude of some childcarers and teachers who seem to think that as they spend time with children they automatically know more than the child's parent. The only time I got a really crap previous SENCO to stop patronising me and overruling DS medical team was when I pointed out my qualifications to her (I am a nearly qualified Neropsychologist but had to stop training for health reasons) and she acquiesced that I was probably more qualified than she was to talk about ASC. It shouldn't have been needed.

I'd sack them off OP. They sound like they want to do their own thing and don't want to be questioned or work with you in any way.

[PandaPieForTea]

Wow, I’m sorry you’ve been through this whole saga with the nursery. I’d like to let you know that when we moved DD’s nursery she settled much quicker than first time round because she had already experienced going to a nursery, so I hope you find somewhere lovely and you find the same.

[Tawdrylocalbrouhaha]

I agree OP - it sounds as if the relationship has broken down, and since they are handling it in a hostile way your son will be better off elsewhere.

It's only 2 mornings a week and there are probably playgroups you can take him to for those mornings until you find another nursery, so no need whatsoever to feel guilty.

[EggsonHeads]

They may be trying to identify a special need to get extra funding if he is on free 15 hours.

[Glitterzzz]

Thank you for that response. I did expect her to maybe bring it up and clear the air so to speak but yes I can see now that this ain’t going to be possible. I’m planning to email them over the weekend to let them know he won’t be returning and how they can learn from this in the future... maybe:-)

[Coloursthatweremyjoy]

I think they have just shown you everything you need to know about their level of professionalism OP.

I'd pull him out and tell them why.

I know you feel guilty but ime children who have been in one setting settle quickly into another. He deserves better than this.

They sound like a bunch of school kids. I've had a parent complain about me before, it was a misunderstanding actually and we sorted it out OK. It's not nice, no, but you just paint on your professional face and get on with the job at hand. I wouldn't stand for this behaviour.

[Glitterzzz]

Just wanted to update. It was my sons next session today. There had been some emails back and forth with the manager downplaying what I expressed to her which I did expect. I said to conclude our corrospondance that it would
Be appreciated that they communicated to be better in future and they side stepped the whole trying to throw diagnosis at me about my son. Funny enough the manager didn’t bring that part up at all.

Calling into collect him today I was expecting to have the usual 5 min chat and catch up on his session with the key worker which is what we always do. However she was on the phone when I arrived, no problem :-) I asked another member of staff how he had been. The response today ‘ just the usual ‘ then silence... I asked about something else to which she gave a short answer then turned to a third memeber of staff and said ‘ just checking what I’m saying, and repeated her answer to the third memeber who agreed with her... 🙄 the key worker came off the phone, didn’t acknowledge me at all. The atmosphere was cold as ice ! I collected my sons bag and usually we would say goodbye but they all carried on so we just left ... his keyworker didn’t call out goodbye and didn’t acknowledge me at all. She is the one who is supposed to feed back to me and she is the one who I emailed in about ( but I did praise her care of my child / just highlighted my other concerns ) so.... I’m kinda gutted that as the manager of that room and being there 17 years she wasn’t able to be professional ... and I’m at the point now where I’m not wanting to take him back! He is paid to the end of the month. Obviously I feel guilt towards my son to just pull him but it’s 2x mornings a week and he’s 22 months :.. they haven’t given me a choice really.. I went in all smiley and acted normal I did expect she might broach the subject with me but ... obviously 17 years i must be the first parent to bring up something I wasn’t happy with ... not

[Glitterzzz]

It’s not a large nursery and the baby room he is in has like 6/7 babies there. Like I said it’s not that I’m thinking they are wrong to suggest there could be a issue but I’m seeing now they are wrong to say he could have mild mild autism / then they say maybe he’s shy / then they say they don’t know / then they says a little something ?!?! The. Lately they are turning one off things into issues ... that’s what is making me feel uncomfortable. Tonight I have been looking for a new nursery. I hate to put him through a move however I don’t see how I can continue here with them ..

[Lizzie48]

Well, they are overstepping the mark in offering a diagnosis, and what does 'mild, mild autism' mean anyway? Nursery staff do spot things, though, and it's worth taking on board their concerns; my DD1's nursery pointed out issues with sitting still and concentration, and they were right, as she's been diagnosed with Attachment Disorder and SPD (both our DDs are adopted). But the nursery didn't attempt a diagnosis, that's where your DS's nursery have been well out of order.

[GrumpyOldBagFace]

When he's out with you he has a secure base. Maybe he doesn't feel like he has a secure at nursery.

Go and have a look round some smaller nurseries. They might not seem as swish but at 22 months he needs security.

[LizzieSiddal]

It sounds to me as if the person making these statements, isn’t very well trained. She’s taking as if she has lifted some phrases from the guidelines/statements of learning (sorry can’t remember the correct name). She’s then made a diagnosis

You’ve done the right thing in querying this. Hopefully the manager will have a word with the staff member.

[Glitterzzz]

Hi after reading just how bad this is the fact they have stood in the hallway and just dropped it to me about mild mild autism or something not being right I’m starting to see it may be best to move him.not because I’m running from what maybe the truth but actually they are not qualified enough to even attempt to diagnose and more to the point why would they even do it? His keyworker has been there for 17 years and she’s the one giving me these huge negative statements .. on the last collection she also said ‘ we have had him throwing toys which is something we haven’t seen before ‘ 22 months is a completely normal age to still be throwing toys and again the Speech therapist wrote that my son displayed age approiate play through out the 1 hour plus appointment. I have hard reservations to move my son as it took him quite some time to settle but if he’s going to be somewhere for a long period before starting school then maybe it will be worth it in the long run. Just to add I’m totally open to the possibility there is an issue I just don’t like the way they W dealing with it / guess the diagnosis attitude / zoning in on things that don’t exist... this latest one about not liking strangers in his environment really got to me because I know factually it’s bullshit. He regularly is in the local shopping mall with 100 plus people all around him, at coffee shops, restaurants, busy play areas etc and has never shown an issue...