To think that parents are responsible for their children's teeth?

[insancerre]

Dental surgeon on BBC breakfast
Says that nurseries should be brushing children's teeth
She is regularly removing all 20 baby teethfrom toddlers under a general and giving teenagers false teeth

I work in a nursery and I really don't see this as my responsibility

It's down to parents to take children to the dentist and to brush their teeth

Of course it's parents' responsibility and ideally all parents would do what is necessary to care for their children's teeth.

In reality though, some children are badly let down by their parents in this as in other aspects of care - this is not news. I looked after a 4yo little girl who had to have all of her top teeth removed because they were blackened stumps and a couple infected. The mother was given lots of guidance about how to prevent the situation of becoming worse. A week later I saw them at the bus stop - little girl was chewing the icing off a massive donut with her gums, and had a bottle of Coke in the other hand. That mother LOVED that little girl to bits and was extremely committed to her, always attended every appointment, was very affectionate etc. But she had learning needs of her own.

Sometimes parents don't/can't do what is necessary for a whole multitude of reasons, and need support.

Hi there,
This has been an awful media coverage, is very one sided, and sensationalist - with some rationale for raising awareness/educating parents of very young children attending dentist - Nobody seems to be bothering to report the millions of children who have healthy teeth and going to the dentist - that would be a non story and not a post on MN.

The children attending OPs Nursery are more likely to be going to a dentist - as it would suggest that if a parent is motivated/educated/employed enough to find a nursery, then they probably take the child to a dentist.

The children the TV dentist sees are at an extreme end of a spectrum. They are very likely to have other health needs, come from chaotic backgrounds and the parents need support. There was no point in interviewing a dentist from a non specialist high street dental surgery who sees children with good oral health, who all get referred to orthodontist if needs be. Maybe on a bad week that dentist does one or two extractions.

I learned about teeth cleaning at first school, donkeys years ago, with the yucky pink tablets, I am sure my own DD brushed giant teeth at nursery and I would think dental health it's a really simple activity for most nursery staff to cover.

It is parents responsibility, but they need to be educated as to when to start going to the dentist, and how to access the dentist.

I always get it in the neck for my sons teeth. He is four now but he fell when he was two and chipped the front four, the chipped bits are going brown dispite brushing The dentists is perfectly happy and just said it's a case of waiting for the baby teeth to drop out and that will be the end of that. I do get busy bodies though stop me and tell me I should be brushing his teeth

It’s interesting that many parents are on here saying their own children have tooth decay due to other factors apart from poor tooth brushing, high sugar diet, etc.
I’m in the same boat. My DS, 7, has no enamel on his back molars. This is either due to a childhood fever or, I suspect, coeliac disease, which runs in my DH’s family. Consequently, we have little hopes of preventing tooth decay so he will probably have to have them extracted in the future. All children like this will be included in the statistics too.

@Nuffaluff if you suspect coeliac disease a simple blood test can diagnose it. We only had to wait 4 weeks after referral to get my ds tested.

Dds nursery does teeth brushing, I think all the local ones do. Its very much a parent's responsibility but hardy a major issue to incorporate into the nursery routine.

In terms of the ops questions earlier, here's how ours do it -

Where am I going to store dozens of toothbrushes - each child has a labeled plastic cup to store their brush and toothpaste. These are stored on a small shelf in the bathroom

How am I going to keep them clean
See above, they're in a cup.

How am I going to stop them getting mixed up and make sure children use their own brush
The cups are labelled with the child's name and their "symbol", the same one used for their coat peg etc

I'm thinking when do I fit it in? What activity do I drop to give us the time to do this
Its five minutes at snack time

Who pays for the toothpaste? Or the brushes?
The parents.

I'm thinking how do I staff this to ensure adequate supervision
Sometimes we have 1-13 over lunch periods as staff have to legally have breaks
Umm - there are legal ratios too. I think you need to look at what's happening here regardless of toothbrushing if this is happening
Who is going to pay for the extra staff needed
There are no extra staff needed - brushing teeth doesn't require more supervision than other activities
I've only got 4 sinks so what do the rest of the children do
They all do it together, the cups are used for water

My MIL was a dentist (now long retired). She gets the rage about kids sucking on those fruit shoot type bottles at every given opportunity and thinks they are the devil's own tools.

Need more sleep
1-13 is the legal ratio

Golden, have you asked your dentist if your DC has dentinegenisis imperfecta (DI) or aenamelogenisis imperfecta (AI), or a similar genetic condition which affects the formation of the teeth? Certain illnesses or medications taken in pregnancy can also damage baby tooth development.

A genetic condition affecting tooth and bone development runs in my family (at least 4 generations that we know of!). The risk is 50/50 that each child of an affected parent will have it, and baby teeth are generally much worse affected than the adult teeth (but they are small and fragile too, usually).
It’s very striking to look at the kids in our family, affected and unaffected siblings who have the same diet, same dentist and same toothbrushing...

On numerous occasions I know I’ve been judged for my DC baby teeth which on casual observation most would assume “rotten”, but were infact chipped, broken, worn down and stained due to the genetic condition (if the enamel breaks off, the dentin can stain badly even if not decayed).
Every time the school dentist came, I’d write DC has DI and is receiving appropriate treatment from dentist X, otherwise he’d be flagged up due to the condition of his teeth (I guess I’m saying that awareness of genetic conditions affecting teeth didn’t seem to be very high amongst the public health dentists doing school visits although I suppose they may not have been looking very hard, or spending very much time on each child).

While DI and AI are relatively rare, I think many kids have weak enamel and malformed baby teeth due to illness, medication and nutrient deficiencies that occurred in their mothers before they were born- the baby teeth are formed then... better tooth brushing is only part of the solution because if the teeth were stronger and better formed they’d be more resistant to decay.

My opinion, if kids are having multiple baby teeth removed at age 2 or 3 there’s a good chance something more complex going on than simply not brushing often enough... but I don’t think that angle is even being explored, it’s easier just to use these kids as bad examples to scare parents into action

YANBU
Of course children’s teeth are a parent’s responsibility. They should be brushing twice a day with a fluoride toothpaste and avoiding sweets, sweet drinks etc as much as possible. Children should be taken to the dentist at least twice a year.
Nurseries and schools have a certain responsibility- only give water or milk to drink, don’t hand out biscuits, sweets or chocolate as treats, don’t use fruit as a frequent snack but as part of a meal. Nurseries are encouraged to do a lunchtime brush- not sure whether schools do this?
But the ultimate responsibility lies with parents.
Dental neglect is a safeguarding issue.

Golden... I mean because the enamel on his teeth may have chipped off more easily than normal

This has been an awful media coverage, is very one sided, and sensationalist - with some rationale for raising awareness/educating parents of very young children attending dentist - Nobody seems to be bothering to report the millions of children who have healthy teeth and going to the dentist - that would be a non story and not a post on MN.

I think the 'story' is that a quarter of British five-year olds have tooth decay. The millions of children who have healthy teeth figure into that statistic, obviously.

This weird British shift towards the schools being responsible for what would have been considered a parental responsibility 30 years ago is a self-perpetuating cycle.

It's basic hygiene. It's non-negotiable. There's no excuse for sending your children out the door with unbrushed teeth.

It's basic hygiene. It's non-negotiable. There's no excuse for sending your children out the door with unbrushed teeth

Plenty of children are sent to nursery each day dirty and hungry. You are assuming all parents are good parents.

Its five minutes at snack time

We asked about ds having his teeth brushed at school and were told by our dentist to wait for 30 minutes after eating before brushing (so difficult to work into his school day) otherwise you are more likely to damage the enamel. Do all the posters saying their Childs setting cleans their teeth at snack or lunchtime know whether they wait fir half an hour afterwards?

Parent responsibility absolutely but unfortunately some don't give a toss so at least some will be doing it however ridiculous it sounds

@hazey the guidance for settings in my local authority issued by the local health board is to brush before the snack.

Ideally we would give snack and brush teeth later but it's a faff to get 30 toddlers sat at tables twice so this was the compromise.

insancerre re ratios, my apologies, I misread and was thinking of a younger cohort, thus higher staff ratio. I agree it would be much harder in a 1:13 scenario!

I asked dd and their brushing is before the snack too.

Wow from reading on you don't just work in a nursery you're at least a supervisor if not higher - yet seem not to enjoy it or value it. Despite protestations. I have been a nanny and a childminder (where ratios are different as ages differ).

"Nurseries shouldn't have to take over basic health and hygiene." Seriously?? So no hand washing, toileting, nutrition, fluid monitoring... Not a nursery I'd have sent my child to!

Ideally teeth should be getting brushed 3 times a day (the drop to 2 X is not because a 3rd is unnecessary but because dentists have found it hard enough to get people to even do it once!)

For children who's parent/s work full time they are potentially at nursery up to 9 hours a day, consuming 3 meals and 2 snacks plus drinks - think of all the bacteria, sugar and acids!

I'm thinking where am I going to store dozens of toothbrushes you don't - they keep them labelled in their nursery bags, dd used to have a wee rucksack with nappies, cream, change of clothes, facecloth, toothbrush (in a wee holder) and toothpaste etc I imagine that hasn't changed

How am I going to keep them clean rinse them put back in holders in bags

How am I going to stop them getting mixed up and make sure children use their own brush one worker one child at a time, toothbrushes are labelled - hardly rocket science

And several pps have described other options I wasn't aware of either.

I'm thinking when do I fit it in? What activity do I drop to give us the time to do this I can't see this taking more than about 1/2 hour if well organised and sufficient staff - maybe ask scots nursery workers?

Who pays for the toothpaste? Or the brushes? parents (see first point)

I'm thinking how do I staff this to ensure adequate supervision
Sometimes we have 1-13 over lunch periods as staff have to legally have breaks are you employing enough staff already? Sounds like not

Who is going to pay for the extra staff needed - see above how much are parents paying?

I've only got 4 sinks so what do the rest of the children do while waiting for their turn? play? Use bowls? Surely they're not all toileted at the same time either.

"No, I'm in this job for the money and the perks, obviously" erm think you may need to consider a career change you really sound like you hate it aren't suited to it!

My dd went to nursery when I was working full time and before childsmile came in and her nursery did it - they didn't seem to have any problem doing so.

"It’s worth noting that in the uk dental care is free for under 18s so why wouldn’t any parent register their child with a dentist and keep on top of their child’s dental health that way." Oh boy! That's pretty much a whole other thread! Not everywhere has nhs dentists available/taking on plus dentists should really only be for 6-monthly check ups and hopefully occasional treatment, not thrice daily brushing! In some areas waiting lists up to 3 years!

Agree not all dental issues down to hygiene but it is a factor. Dds disability makes her more vulnerable to gum issues and therefore tooth loosening, I've 2 front teeth I bashed in my car accident that haven't been quite right since, have managed to keep them so far and hoping I will in future but they've needed a fair bit of work.

dINex that seems a thinly veiled post saying it's only really poor/lower class parents who neglect their child's dental health/send their kids to nursery. There's NO basis for that at all. As has been stated by several pps.

Absolutely not your responsibility when will these so called parents realise that it's up to them to brush their teeth and potty train!

In south Wales each nursery has a dental nurse who makes regular visits, they provide "brush buses" a plastic bus that holds 10 toothbrushes which are labelled with the child's name. A member of staff applies the toothpaste to all brushes and the children (with guidance) take their brush out.

They do it sat at the table, no need for sinks as the guidance is not to rinse your mouth afterwards and young dc only need a tiny smear of toothpaste.

Literally takes a few minutes prep and quickly becomes part of the daily routine.

Nurseries shouldn't have to take over basic health and hygiene." Seriously?? So no hand washing, toileting, nutrition, fluid monitoring... Not a nursery I'd have sent my child to!

^^ this!

Bouclejacket
I worked in nursery where it was often 2-3 staff to 20 babies.
Yes it’s illegal but it happens.

I must say that the general standard of people’s teeth in the uk astounded me when I first set foot here 20 years ago. Of course not so common in naice areas but nonetheless the oral hygiene compared to countries such as Scandinavia is appalling. I have been equally shocked to see the state of teeth amongst some of my ds’s friends. These children are five and many of them suffer from tooth decay. I find it really sad.
I had never heard or seen any children having decayed teeth in their baby teeth before I got here. In sweden you would brush teeth at nursery, the fluoride lady would come regularily too. Of course this doesn’t mean that parents are less responsible. It just mean that those children who can not rely on their parents to help suffer slightly less. Surely it is our jobs all our jobs to look out for those children that are vulnerable? I will never forget my headteacher at my local primary who invited children for breakfast where the children struggled at home. She made so much efforts to make it healthy and filling and ensuring that they started the day in the most positive way.

We have also been brushing after breakfast. Though before will be easier.
Kids do eat way too many sweets but all the fruit is probably not helping either.

Graphasta
You can tell I hate my job from this one thread on brushing teeth?
Wow, you should give up nannying and become a detective not
You couldn't be further from the truth
All those saying it's a five minute job
It might be for one child but for 40 it's going to take a whole lot longer
If I do 4 at a time, as it's all I can fit in the bathroom, and I'm not giving them bowls to spit in, then it's going to take nearly an hour

Some children finish at 11.30, some at 12. and some at 1
I have children arriving at 12 and 1
Not quite sure when would be the best time
We do continuous snack so the children eat when they want to and we don't ever sit them all down together for snack or lunch, as some children have lunch in a different building
Some children only attend 8.30-11.30 and don't have any meals with us, so fitting in brushing teeth for them would be a challenge
I know I'm itting obstacles in the way, because I still don't think it should be part of nursery routine