To think that we no longer live in a democracy

[applecatchers36]

Just read this article and found it chilling, that our data is being mined from Facebook, Non UK citizens/ nations ( am looking at you USA and Russia) have interfered in supposedly democratic elections. Why isn't this being challenged legally as criminal behaviour? Treason? Election fraud?

[caroldecker]

Currency depreciation increases UK income and jobs - it is swings and roundabouts. There is a reason countries try and devalue their currencies, because it is mostly beneficial to have a cheap currency.
Brexit could also reduce food prices by eliminating duties, which mainly affect food imports.

[Valentine2]

“We have looked at the Nissan deal in terms of what degree of currency depreciation you would need to offset the 10 per cent tariff that motor manufacturers could face under WTO rules, and the answer to us is that it looks like a 15 per cent depreciation of sterling would offset a 10 per cent tariff. We have already had a 12 per cent depreciation so we are pretty well there. This may have been what the government was relying upon: it is the currency depreciation that bridges that gap.

And who pays for that currency depreciation? I am sure it's not Mrs May or her husband. I am already paying a substantial extra amount for my food shop than I was paying last year and it's far above inflation.

[BillSykesDog]

But when George Soros does it for the left apparently the Guardian thinks that's fine.

[caroldecker]

Valentine2
These predictions were for immediately after the vote or as soon as Article 50 was triggered. both have happened and the catastrophe has yet to occur.
You keep believing the mistaken experts to console yourself by all means.

[Valentine2]

babybarrister

Can you give some references for this please?

[Valentine2]

All proved wrong to date - no reason to believe their 'expertise' now.
But then you will also say that we have left EU already, woundlt you?

[caroldecker]

Valentine2 What facts? What experts?

The IMF prediction of stock market crash, property price crash and recession?
George Osbourne's £30bn tax raising budget?
Bank of England?

All proved wrong to date - no reason to believe their 'expertise' now.

[Valentine2]

I know it Carol because it Leave side that received numerous warnings from experts/academics but what's the point discussing that in the post-truth world.
You are entitled to your opinion only, not to your facts.

[caroldecker]

Valentine2

Because when things are this murky, you are nearly always better off to err on the safer side. The side that you know rather than the unknown

How do you know Remain was the safe side? Often a fundamental change in relationship is the safer side - see the relationships board.

Kokusi I strongly believe something this complex shouldn't have been the subject for a referendum So how should it have been decided?

[LurkingHusband]

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

Isaac Asimov

[catgirl1976]

Are there really people who believe that Russian interference in the elections of the US and other countries is some sort of outlandish conspiracy theory rather than a proven fact accepted by the intelligence communities?

Do you live in a bubble?

[nocake]

The media (and other parties) have always manipulated public opinion to sway votes. We're just more aware of it happening now and arguably it can be done on a bigger scale with the use of the internet. If you think your opinion isn't being swayed then you're probably oblivious, in which case the influencers are doing their job very well.

[Kokusai]

The problem with the Brexit referendum was that (a) it should never have been the subject of a referendum because it is far too complex for people to understand

Why do Remain voters tend to post this to support they were right? If it is too complex, then they have no clue whether they were right to vote remain.

I am a remain voter and I strongly believe something this complex shouldn't have been the subject for a referendum. However I can say hand on heart I don't appreciate all the nuances and implications of Brexit or Remain, I did a fuck of a lot of research and I have fairly strong critical thinking skills and am used to evaluating evidence from difference sources. Lets be honest - how many people (on both sides) actually did more than read mainstream media? And how many people didn't e en do that?

[DoloresTheRunawayTrain]

I thought the right to free speech was a basic fundamental of democracy.
I don't give a flying fuck who you voted for. I don't care if you wrap yourself in tin foil and wire up a Speak'N'Spell to a record player. I don't care if you only read the Daily Mail. Who you vote for is your own concern. You have a responsibility to make an informed choice and a lot of people (no matter who they vote for) can't be arsed doing that. Which is why propaganda works. It's easier to swallow that than get off your arse and fact check. All organisations are guilty of it.

To say anyone who has a differing view from yours is a threat to democracy is as extreme a view as the views you are opposing.

I do believe in " I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Incidentally, although this quote is often attributed to Voltaire, it was actually made by Evelyn Beatrice Hall in a 1906 biography.
Yes, it means we have to hear some abhorrent views (I'm talking more about the view of people and children as property etc) but it is important to understand where these views come from.

[Kokusai]

I am reading a book at the moment that details the build up to the second WW and the rise of fascism.

I am very, very scared that we are going the same way. Brexit + Trump are the biggest threats to world peace we have had since WWII.

Trump fires the FBI cheif who was investigating the russia claims.

May calls an election when there is no strong opposition in order to take total control.

Lies lies and more lies (propaganda) instead of news.

Fucking scary.

[strugglinghuman]

The problem with a democracy is that ignorant and uneducated people's votes count just as much as those who have actually an idea what they are voting for.

This discussion was had already. Your "flaw" is exactly the one that was defeated and debunked, and was described on record as being wrong, for women and lower class men to get the vote. In the debating halls, in parliament, at protests, in the family home, in the workplace and in the trenches and battlefields of conscripted soldiery people whose sacrifices did not require an exam or an IQ test, people who suffer the consequences of the country's decisions, won the vote.

Let's leave this revolting "the little people shouldn't vote" reasoning in the 19th century where it belongs.

[strugglinghuman]

Utter shit.

The threats to democracy are the people who cook up and/or disseminate this bollocks to try and fiddle the system after people have voted a way they don't like.

Everyone can see this, you are fooling nobody but yourselves, and you are playing with fire trying to get rid of democracy.

[Valentine2]

Would you prefer that we go back to the days of only gentrified landowners being allowed to vote?
I think they are trying to say that it is an inherent flaw being used against the people themselves by the powerful people who can.

[ClarkWGriswold]

YABU. We live in a democracy. The problem with a democracy is that ignorant and uneducated people's votes count just as much as those who have actually an idea what they are voting for.

Would you prefer that we go back to the days of only gentrified landowners being allowed to vote?

[MephistophelesApprentice]

It's just data gathering to help plan a political campaign, like democratic politicians have done forever.

It's better, because instead of saying "black people vote for X, women vote for Y" it produces more accurate data and allows for more personalised approach.

I'm still unclear why this is a bad thing. If Jeremy Corbyn was using it, left wingers would think it was great and the Telegraph would be writing about the terrifying manipulation of democracy by the hard left.