To insist on contact details

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

I'm a florist. People regularly ring us to order deliveries over the phone. A guy rang today sending to a woman whose details he was hazy about. There was a lot of "hang on..." while he looked stuff up on his phone ( work address, phone number etc).

The message he wanted wasn't identifying and he refused to give his contact details as he didn't want her to know who they were from.

I told him that I needed his contact details in case anything went wrong with the order, but he refused again, saying "it's ok, just send them. "

I explained that I really couldn't do that, as part of the contract of sending was that we had his details.

We backed and forthed for a while with him saying " but I could give you a false name and number" which of course he could, but I could 1471 his number to check if he was lying.

This all seemed a bit fishy to be honest. It's not like he said "I want to send my girlfriend flowers but I'm keeping it anonymous." We've had quite a few stalkers send people flowers and on a couple of occasions had to get the police involved, which always makes me super cautious when I have to take an anonymous order. Most clients understand where I'm coming from and I take their details on the understanding that I will protect their identity unless there are mitigating circumstances.

Anyway ( sorry, this is getting long...) he gave me his details with incredibly bad grace, which left me thinking that perhaps I had pushed too hard in my insistence to get his details. But the flip side is that receiving flowers from an unwanted admirer ( it happens far more than you'd probably think) can be really upsetting.

There is also the "send anonymous flowers and then see if she mentions them to me because I suspect she's got a lover" bouquet. This is when the woman then rings me begging to know who they're from because they could be from her husband or her 'brother'

So, what I'm asking is: what would you have done in my shoes? WIBU to press for details or in future should I just shrug it off and say "sorry, he didn't leave his name" when asked?

[SapphireStrange]

TBH the more I read your OP the less sense it makes.
If he ordered by phone, you'd have his CC number and name.

I'm confused about this too.

I don't disagree that it'd be good to have a phone number in case there is a problem with the order – in fact if I were a florist I'd insist –but surely his address could be tracked down via his card details?

[LoveHarry]

Insist on the details. Someone sent me anonymous, funeral flowers for 6 months with nasty notes. They paid in cash, ordered a month in advance. Gave fake contact details and sealed envelopes with the message. A horrible experience which took over 18 months working with the police to finally identify them. If it's suspicious- make it harder for them. If it's not, then it shouldn't matter.

[PollyPerky]

I don't agree LoveHarry. I think there is a fine line between collecting money as a small business and delving into private matters.
Increasingly people are concerned about the collection of data and how it is stored. In times when banks are being hacked for details, the chances of a small florist keeping data safe are not high.
I appreciate that sometimes people send things to cause trouble, but if we followed your logic, anything sent in the post- letters, parcels etc, would have to be accompanied by the sender's details. Sounds like a police state!

[StoatofDisarray]

YANBU. He sounds like a prat.

I've had anonymous flowers sent to me, and it was a total PITA. They could have been from the colleague who has been low-grade stalking me for years, my boyfriend, my boss (I had just finished a big project and he was abroad), or my sister, who has form for random floral tributes. When I called the shop to find out, they refused to tell me. I thanked my boss effusively, but he didn't know what I was talking about. A few weeks later, I found out they were an overture from a (female) colleague who had a massive crush on me.

It would have saved me a lot of carefully-worded conversations/emails/heartache if the florist had told me when I asked. Anonymous gifts are not a "nice" thing to do, and I don't think they should be allowed.

[GahBuggerit]

"So, what I'm asking is: what would you have done in my shoes? WIBU to press for details or in future should I just shrug it off and say "sorry, he didn't leave his name" when asked?"

So if I ordered flowers from you, and asked to remain anonymous for whatever reason, if 'pressed' you would pass my details on?

I think you should just concern yourself with getting payment and leaving detective work to the police

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

I agree I have his cc details and billing postcode, so those will match in order to process the order.
He can give me whichever name he pleases if he wants to protect/hide his identity. I could tell him that he runs the risk of the flowers not being delivered if he won't leave a phone number but I think that's not the way to run a business, hence the aibu.

I've had eight stalker/ harassment cases over the years where the police were involved and a lot more where it hasn't amounted to anything other than " please don't send me the flowers if he calls again" ( to the extent that we have a list of ' banned ' people!)

Valentine's Day - strangely it hasn't happened. The anonymous people are quite happy to give their names under the promise it won't be revealed. True love and all that.

[DJBaggySmalls]

YANBU, we run a shop and have an anti harassment policy. Their info is protected by the Data Protection Act. We are upfront about all this. We wont send anonymous notes, and we insist on the buyer giving us their details.

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

Gah no we don't give out details when pressed but it takes the shine of a surprise a bit to say " Sorry madam, you'll have to contact the police if you want to know that".
Some recipients like ones that have posted below have been quite traumatised.
It's a massive PITA when it happens all round.

[HerOtherHalf]

That must have been very upsetting for you LoveHarry. However, it would have been just as upsetting if you had been bombarded with anonymous, threatening letters. Should we should insist the Royal Mail stops delivering mail that doesn't have the sender's details written on the envelope?

[HerOtherHalf]

The anonymous people are quite happy to give their names under the promise it won't be revealed.

So if you won't reveal their details to the recipient anyway what problem do you think you're solving?

[ArcheryAnnie]

That's not the same, HerOther. A written letter, even if sent through the mail, is done by the stalker themselves. I haven't used Moonpig, but I imagine there's a record of the person who used the service if a stalker send nasty cards that way.

A florist is a third party, and another layer between the victim and the stalker, if the stalker is sending flowers.

OP, I think it's fine for you to set whatever conditions you like.

[GahBuggerit]

Sorry i don't understand your last post. What shine is being taken off? Sorry i may be being thick....... But why not just say sorry they asked to remain anonymous?

[GabsAlot]

the eproblem of harrassment i shoul think

anonymous stalker leaves no trace police cant do anything

or shop has the details to pas on to police to stop the harrasment

[GahBuggerit]

So op passes the info on

[Ceto]

How do you cope with St Valentines day, one of your busiest days of the year when it's traditional to send anonymous gifts?

Why would that be an issue? OP hasn't suggested she wanted the information in order to pass it on to the recipient.

[HerOtherHalf]

Why would that be an issue?

It shouldn't be an issue, other than to the OP who seems to be massively concerned about sending flowers with unsigned cards in case they are being used to harass. My point was that on StV day at least, that is very much the norm so how does she avoid getting her knickers in a serious knot at all the potential harassers she might be facilitating?

OP hasn't suggested she wanted the information in order to pass it on to the recipient.

So why does she think having it makes any difference? There is no logic whatsoever to her argument.

[SapphireStrange]

I could tell him that he runs the risk of the flowers not being delivered if he won't leave a phone number but I think that's not the way to run a business

To the contrary, what if something goes wrong with the order that means you need to contact the customer, and you can't, and the recipient ends up not getting their flowers? Is THAT a better way to run a business?

You need to make clear that, while you won't share any contact details, you need them so you can get hold of the customer in case of a problem.

[HerOtherHalf]

or shop has the details to pas on to police to stop the harassment

As has already been clarified several times, the shop has the credit card number. The police can easily trace the sender from that with one phone call.

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

30 years in the business has given me a spidey sense about certain callers. This man was so arsey about not giving me a name OR number, despite me telling him that it wouldn't be revealed, that I felt he had another reason than just a nice surprise for his partner. Of course I could be wrong, and he just doesn't like giving out his details as PPs have mentioned they don't either.
So arsey that I started to feel I was in the wrong, hence asking.

[LadyOfTheCanyon]

Sapphire sorry, I phrased that wrong. That's what I meant. If something goes wrong we have no way of contacting the customer to let them know and try and resolve it.

The amount of people who get the most basic addresses wrong is quite staggering.

[HerOtherHalf]

Just to introduce a bit of florist-related humour. My dad was serving a customer in my mother's flower shop one St Valetines day. The customer was a worker from a nearby heavy engineering works and after pausing sheepishly for a minute said "I don't want my mates seeing me walking down the street with a big bunch of flowers. Any chance you could give me one of your black bin bags"? "No problem" says my dad. "Would you like me to cut eye holes in it so you can see where you're going"?

[Qwebec]

HerOtherHalf this is quite funny

OP I get stuck in similar situations and it IS really uncomfortable. When ever someone sends a gift with an anonymus card I ask if that name can be revealed if the reciever calls. 99% of the time they say it won't be necessary but accept. If they refuse to give contact details, I warn them that they run the risk of a failed delivery.

It is really tricky what is the best approach, in the end you have to do what makes the mosts sense to you. I don't insist on details other than warning them, but were I work the policy is suprises generally appreciated by the recipient (even if it's hard if/when things go wrong) so we go along. Your position is also very valid.

I like the suggestion of insisting for details to prevent fraud, it avoids sending the message that you find the client suspicious.

[Ceto]

My point was that on StV day at least, that is very much the norm so how does she avoid getting her knickers in a serious knot at all the potential harassers she might be facilitating?

By asking people to give their contact details. She explained that.