Aibu to complain to the police?

[honeyroar]

Sorry this is a long one!

My 76yr old mother lives next door to a 85yr old lady. My mum knows her daughter and suggested the house next door to her when the daughter was searching for a house for my mum. The old lady had moved due to problem neighbours. Initially, for the first few years, my mum got on well with the lady, she often took her out, had her round, introduced her to her friends. Then one day my mum got her washing in for her because it was raining and the old lady went bonkers at her, saying my mum had always had a problem with her washing and she poured out a long list of reasons why she hated my mum. My mum had teased her about how much washing she did (sheets every other day!) but only in good spirit. My mum was very upset she'd hurt her, and tried several times to apologise, put cards through her door etc, but the lady has completely ignored her and blanked her ever since. Then the old lady started calling the police on my mum about anything and everything. If my mum touched her fence (the fence between their houses) or stepped near her front gate. The police always come out, say it's not illegal to touch her fence, but to try not to and try to keep the peace. The old lady has cctv, and if my mum touches the fence (e.g. When weeding her garden) she comes out dancing and saying "I've got you now, you're going to get what's coming to you" then rings the police. She has also called the police out a few times for her other neighbour. But the police always come out, even though nothing is ever illegal. I was there last time they came and asked them if it was even a police matter, and they said no it's a civil matter really. They're very nice with my mum, but it still upsets her and she's had to go to the doctors for help sleeping, she was so upset. It always happens in summer, and today the police rang my mum again to say she's complained about her touching the fence again. I've had enough, and although the police are lovely I feel like complaining as them coming round only serves to make the old lady do it more as she probably thinks they're telling my mum off. Aibu to think they should be telling the old lady to stop and in doing so stop encouraging her?

Any advice welcome. If it were up to me I'd put up a 6' solid fence alongside the 3' railings that are currently there, to screen her from the lady, but my mum thinks it would be ugly and doesn't want to block the lady's light.

[honeyroar]

Ps, not wanting to offend either dementia or OCD sufferers, it doesn't matter what she has, if anything.

[honeyroar]

MrsMims I also said I'd read lots and lots about dementia and know it can take obsessive forms.. This isn't like anything I've read or seen in the dementia wing of my mil'a home.. I'm not just basing my view on my experience of my mil's illness. And it is obsessive and compulsive behaviour so I don't see why I'm so ignorant calling it that. It might not be, but in my opinion it's an obsession (and no I can't diagnose!).

Anyway, I'm just going away for a few days, but I just had a text from my mum saying she will have a big fence put up, so that's good. Strange to think that five years ago there was no fence at all between their cottages and they happily sat out together and were in and out of each other's gardens.

[MsMims]

It sounds nothing like OCD whatsoever. So ignorant to think obsessive = OCD. People with OCD are worried about harm coming to themselves or people they love, hence the compulsions. People with OCD tend to be overly kind and sensitive.

No one here can make a medical diagnosis but I agree with PP that I too see some similarities with her behaviour and my DGM's dementia. Just because it's presenting differently to your experience of dementia doesn't mean it can't be that. In any case the woman is clearly unwell.

The police do (and should) have an interest as these sort of situations can escalate into criminal matters (harassment, criminal damage etc). The point of the neighbourhood team is to diffuse and help before it gets to that stage.

I would get a taller fence up if that will ease the situation. The woman might be happy to sacrifice the light in favour of not having cause to get so annoyed at your mum. Regardless of what you think, the tension must be stressful for her too.

[Butteredparsnip1ps]

That the issues have been going on for a long time doesnt exclude a psychiatric condition.

[NootNoot]

That woman really really doesn't sound well. But that is shocking for your mum. I would be inclined to record the woman having a bat-shit crazy moment & show the daughter. Very big hugs to your poor mum x

[Bantanddec]

Health not help!

[Bantanddec]

This is so weird, the police wouldn't even come out when I was assaulted at work, I find it hard to believe they are pandering to an old lady about her fence!? Your mum needs to get a solicitor or move house, I know it's an upheaval especially as she's elderly but this can't be helping her mental help either.

[AcrossthePond55]

If the police feel they have to come out for whatever reason, can your mother request that as they leave her house they turn around with a big smile, a great wave, and say real loud "Ta Mrs X, lovely chatting with you. Thanks ever so for the tea and cake!".

Maybe if the old bat thinks your mum is NOT getting 'told off' she'll get less of a thrill from calling the police.

[Sylvannas]

You say she has cctv. But knows when your mum is touching the fence from her side? Legally this lady's cctv cannot be surveilling any property but her own. I don't think she's legally allowed to have her cctv recording your mum's garden. I'd speak to the police about that!

[emmyrose2000]

The old lady had moved due to problem neighbours

I would say SHE was the problem neighbour. It does not sound as though the neighbour has dementia. Some people are just nasty, vile, excuses for human beings, and she sounds like one of them.

The police are being absolutely useless, and in fact, it sounds like they are also harassing your mum to an extent, as it's easier to deal with her than to actually do their job and do something about the problem woman. I'd be speaking to someone more senior at the station or wherever and say you're sick of the harassment and ineffectual policing and why isn't anything being done?

As for your mother, OP, it sounds as though she needs to strengthen her spine. Stop being so nice and passive. Refusing to put a fence up in case it blocks the nasty neighbour's light? Seriously? Who cares if it blocks the light. If it cuts back on the harassment then that's just the price the nasty neighbour has to pay. It's a very sensible and straightforward solution. Get tougher with the police when they call around and ask why they're wasting her time again when they all know who the real culprit is.

It might be time to team up with neighbour on the other side of crazy woman and contact a solicitor.

There've been some very sensible solutions put forward, but if your mum isn't willing to instigate them then she's going to have to put up with this crazy, nasty woman doing as she pleases.

[Tinklebinkle]

The thing that jumped out of the page at me was the reason for the initial move. She has complained of nuisance neighbours? It sees very likely that she was the instigator not the victim (although she could be both). It is a horrible situation to be in for your Dm. Just to clarify things a little, policing is now often separated into neighbourhood policing and response policing, response chase the burglars thieves and violent offenders whilst neighbourhood officers investigate the nuisance issues like neighbourhood disputes or criminal damage. As you can imagine, response are chasing their tails whilst neighbourhood officers can spread their workloads a little more hence the regular visits to your mum and the non visit following a burglary. Both teams are busy just in different ways. Your mum needs to harden up a little, if she is 100% confident that she has not done anything wrong then she can withdraw her co-operation from the local officers. She is under no obligation to engage with it all. In fact there is nothing wrong in asking to communicate via email (CC'ing you in of course) to keep the local officers from the door. Your mum is being very co-operative and the police are clearly trying to deal with the situation but sometimes it is necessary to be a little hard and refuse to engage. If no criminal matters have occurred then withdraw and refuse to co-operate. You don't have to make life easy for the police and if, as it seems here, your mum is an innocent victim, then it is her that is being harassed and her that is the victim. Let the lady next door make all the effort ringing and making statements tell your dm to let them get on with it but I wouldn't complain about the police particularly because they are just doing what they are paid for really. Hope it gets better soon x

[honeyroar]

She's not terrified of going outside, but it frustrates her. In summer the neighbour will sit in a position where she can stare at my mum. A big solid fence would really help, but mum won't be persuaded just yet. She thinks it will take a lot of her neighbour's light. It might, but it would be her own fault!

[honeyroar]

Yes Doowappy, that's exactly what I think, by the police repeatedly turning out they're "rewarding" the neighbour - she feels my mum is getting punished.. it shouldn't be happening if they're saying it's a civil matter not a police one. Yes we do have the name of the officer. I will get in touch.

And thanks to you all, it's been good talking about it. And while I really think it isn't dementia, I could be wrong.

[JaneEyre70]

I'd go to a garden centre and buy the biggest screens that you can get to put on your mums side so this lady can't physically see her if she's outside? If she's reporting your mum touching her fence, then she must be keeping watch constantly. Take her vision away and it may be the answer. She's clearly obsessing over the fence. I'd even get someone in to put a higher fence inside your mums boundary if that's what it takes. Your mum has a right to peace and privacy in her home and she must be terrified of going outside, bless her. And I'd be talking seriously about moving if it carried on.

[Doowappydoo]

I would raise it with the police, agree with pp that sometimes it's easier to deal with the victim rather than the bully. Suspect they may just be taking the path of least resistance. Whether the neighbour has dementia or not, your Mum should not be having to deal with repeated visits from the police for touching a fence. However nice they are it's intrusive and upsetting.

If the police are attending because they are concerned about your Mum's neighbour I can't see why they are knocking on your Mums door. It just gives validation to the neighbour and makes it more likely she'll keep calling them.

Do you have the name of the officer who has been attending? Maybe see if you can speak to them, explain the effect it's having on your mum and ask why they need to keep knocking on her door. Confirm the conversation in writing and ask for it to be kept on record. Take it further if you don't get a satisfactory response.

[honeyroar]

She's not losing quality of life really. It's just very annoying and upsets her when it happens. The bloke on the other side of her has had the police called several times too. It annoys him too. She sent him a solicitor's letter saying he urgently needed to repair a section of gutter that overhung her property, then when he put a foot of his ladder on her garden (only place to put it) she rang the police about him trespassing. It's like she sets people up. She must spend all day watching her cctv. Mum laughs that they'll never get broken into!

I would put money on that it's NOT dementia. I knew her well when she and mum were friends and there was no sign of it at all. And believe me I've read everything going on dementia since my MIL has had it. I keep hoping the neighbour will end up in care (that's awful, isn't it!) she's getting more frail and has carers helping for the last few months.

[P1nkSparkles]

It's quite possible that it is a dementia, but just maybe a vascular or frontal-temporal lobe dementia, which can present quite differently to the classic Alzheimer's presentation that people are used to & could explain some of these paranoid/irrational behaviours.

I would suggest keeping the daughter in the loop... so that she understands not just what is happening, but also the impact that it's having on your mum.

Also - the police are very used to dealing with these sort of issues. I have also found are also pretty good at communicating any concerns that they have with adult social care... the problem is adult social care are so stretched in most areas now that things have to be pretty desperate before they get involved. Please reassure your mum that if they thought she was at fault in any way they would be making it very clear.

It must be really tough for her - it's stressful having neighbour issues

[Nicknacky]

Of course elderly people can just be plain nasty, but it's very possibly than as an 85 year old there might be a medical issue. Especially them way it has been described.

[springflowers11]

I think she has dementia.It manifest differently in different people.Just becuae it isn't following the pattern of your relative doesn't mean it isn't dementia.Paranoia and reacting inappropriately to situations are classic signs.Many patients who are to put it bluntly, are barking mad, can put on a plausible 'front' for a short time.
Also if she is registered as being vulnerable, maybe the Police HAVE to call, the same as the ambulane has to come to vulnerable elderly people even though they are known as serial timewasters.

[Floralnomad]

I don't know why half the posters keep saying the neighbour must be unwell , face facts some people are just nasty ,even sweet looking little old ladies .

[Bettercallsaul1]

I agree with pps that this is probably dementia, which progresses in stages, and often involves the person becoming obsessed with certain situations or objects (such as the fence) and also feeling persecuted and sinned against. Her social isolation will make this worse as she has very few distractions and has lost a normal sense of perspective.

This is cold comfort for your Mum, however, and it sounds as if she's feeling a bit depressed and hopeless about it all. Is there any possibility of her moving house, OP? I know it sounds drastic but it sounds as if your Mum is gradually losing any quality of life. A younger person or family would be able to shrug this off better than your mother who is getting on in years herself and deserves some peace and quiet.

[honeyroar]

Yes they both own their houses.

[honeyroar]

Thanks all. I think I do need to speak to the police or a solicitor myself, let them know that I'm worried about my mum. I'd speak to the daughter but I don't know where she lives or her number without asking my mum, and I don't think she'd want me to. The trouble with my mum is that she looks younger and seems stronger than she is, so nobody realises how it upsets her.

[Butteredparsnip1ps]

OP it's very likely that the neighbour is unwell. And while your Mum sounds incredibly kind and patient she needs to look after herself.

She could phone Social Care and say she is concerned about vulnerable lady next door.
She could also make a complaint to Police about harassment. A part of me wonders if they are waiting for your Mum to do this. If neighbour has an ASBO or whatever they are called now, there could be action after future incidents.

Finally does neighbour own her own home or rent?

[TheMysteriousJackelope]

I would complain to the police. This is harassment. Your mother is not doing anything illegal. They are picking on her for the same reason schools pick on the victims of a bully - the victim is easier to deal with and not going to kick up a bolshy fuss. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and in this case it is the neighbor. You and your mother need to squeak back. I am in the US and there is usually a civilian oversight of our police departments. There must be something similar in the UK surely?

Telling your mother that the neighbor is contacting a solicitor was ridiculous. Why didn't the police tell the neighbor that your mother was not doing anything wrong and she was wasting everyone's time? They could have headed that whole thing off at the pass and saved themselves effort down the road.