How do I get the power back?

[MadJeffBarn]

Not really an aibu but posting for traffic as I'm utterly at my wits end.
My 5 year old rules the roost. Its taken s long time to admit it and im ashamed. She doesn't listen to me, at all. I ask her to tidy and she just says 'no'. That's it. She's mean to her brother, she's mean to us. She has an absolutely stinking attitude. But I don't know how to claw back the power. It's easy to say 'you're the grown up she's the child' but whatever measures I put in place doesn't affect her. Time outs, throwing her stuff away, groundings, punishments, bribery, sticker charts... Nothing. My mil is a social support worker and she tells me to pick my battles which is good advice, except she let's her get away with everything and to be honest, working full time with two young kids, I don't have time to be diplomatic on every battle we have. Today I just sat on the sofa and watched while she threw baby wipes everywhere, ripped up tissue and harassed her brother because I'm so tired and sick of fighting, fighting the will to just walk out and lock the door behind me. It's her deadpan face whenever I try, it winds me up no end!

[skerrywind]

You need to focus on positive parenting..
whatever measures I put in place doesn't affect her. Time outs, throwing her stuff away, groundings, punishments, bribery, sticker charts... Nothing.

Giving attention and praise when she does things right are 10 times more effective than trying to constantly punish.

Often kids who are playing nicely or behaving well are overlooked, feedback only comes from a parent when things go badly.

I have never punished, I don't think it is often very effective.

[c3pu]

Use the naughty step for the worst of the behaviour, and a reward chart to improve one particular.area of behaviour.

And stick at it, even when it seems like it's not working!

[greenthings]

Time outs, throwing her stuff away, groundings, punishments also sound quite draconian to me, even if you feel they are a last resort, and may make matters worse. In calmer times do you have a good relationship with your daughter? Have you thought about going to your GP about the situation?

[greenthings]

I think the behaviour sounds a bit odd, OP. It may not just be you being an over-relaxed parent. Surely, she must have a sweeter side too, or is it really 100% defiance and hostility?

I am struggling with a teenager at the moment (borderline ADHD) and everything feels like , at home, from the school (though not diagnosed so neither my son nor me have any real defence to his behaviour) so I can imagine how you feel .

[PinPon]

My kids are about that age and they don't tidy voluntarily. We only allow them to watch TV after their toys are tidied though, which is definitely a good motivator.

[NannyR]

I agree opal - even toddlers in a nursery will be encouraged to "help" tidy up, it's never too early to instill it as a good habit.

[OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira]

I don't think any of mine at 5 ever tidied a room. Do you think your standards and expectations of her are too high?



I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation of a 5yo at all.

[NannyR]

I've had huge massive behaviour improvements with several children using the <a class="break-all" href="//www.amazon.co.uk/1-2-3-Magic-Effective-Discipline-Parenting/dp/1889140430/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1488399373&sr=8-2&keywords=123%20magic&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">123 magic book. It gives you a "method" for dealing with all unwanted behaviour in a very calm, consistent way and it also talks about how to engage with your children, how too much talking and explaining and emotion does not work. Well worth reading.

[EnormousTiger]

Also where is the father in all this? If you and she clash then let the father deal with her for a month or so. My father and mother eg divide us up at bed time and one put 2 of us through bath, stories, songs, bed and the other the other child.

[EnormousTiger]

I don't think any of mine at 5 ever tidied a room. Do you think your standards and expectations of her are too high?

I find that giving 5 bits of praise to every negative comment to children helps. Also they tend to mirror your mood so if you are really happy, genuinely, laughing having fun they are. If you're not they aren't.

Is she getting enough sleep and is she eating really good whole foods?

[RandomMess]

Have you considered trying the

"I' disappointed you aren't showing me how helpful you can be by tidying up"

replace that with

how kind you can be playing with your brother

how good you are following instructions


You may have to switch disappointed with sad and other similar things occasionally.

Lots of recognition when she does act in the way she wants.

"I see you've been wonderfully with your brother, are you proud of yourself?"

Focus on making it about her feeling good about yourself?

"I see how cross you are feeling by throwing those baby wipes everywhere, shall we pick them up whilst you tell me why you are so cross?"

[MrsKoala]

it's so hard OP isn't it. My 4.6 yo is a total terror. We also struggle with no punishment affecting him. I am going to follow this thread with interest.

for you tho. (no helpful advice - i'm sorry)

[krustykittens]

My youngest was like this at her age, there seemed to be nothing we could punish her with that made her change her behaviour. She didn't care if she was sent to her room, she would just go to sleep, she didn't care if we took her toys away from her, she would just sing to herself, it was maddening. We never did find a silver bullet but she did grow out of it all and become more empathetic. She cares much more about what we think and doesn't like anyone to be upset at her now. She did have glue ear when she was little, which made her live in her own little world and meant that she didn't really register the existence of other people. try the other parenting techniques others have mentioned and if they don't work, try something else. But it is NOT you, because you so obviously care about how your daughter turns out. You will get through this. In the meantime, there is always

[NinkyNonky]

I can second hand in hand parenting. Takes a bit of a mental shift as it's quite different to standard parenting techniques. But - there's lots of stuff about setting boundaries which I think children really need to feel secure.

[weebarra]

I've done an Incredible Years course through my local sure start and I'm now doing a How to Talk so children listen course. I was referred by my health visitor when I took my 2 year old for her two year check. It wasn't her that was the issue it was her oldest brother.
I have found the course massively helpful with regards to my parenting and my house is a nicer place to be for all of us now.

[andontothenext]

Sorry OP I just read my post back and it sounds a bit off.

I feel for you. It must be stressful dealing with that behaviour. I think you need consistency and firmness like she's never experienced

[ems137]

My 9 year old DD can be like this and none of the "usual" punishments worked. I have found thinking of things that she loves doing/having and using the restriction of those as a punishment has worked wonders. E.g. She loves to do crafts - I take them away. She loves walking to school on her own - I go with her and she can't walk with friends.

I also don't let small bits of bad attitude and answering back slide either, she gets a warning and is told ahead of time what the punishment will be and I 100% follow through. It will never work if you let things go sometimes or don't follow through on punishments etc

I also try and do lots of things she enjoys doing together like baking and art stuff when she's being well behaved x

[SpeedyBoots]

It sounds really tough. Our three year old was similar and at the time i also had a four month old to deal with. I found the 123 Magic book to be really helpful. It goes into a lot of detail but the main ideas are being consistent and not getting emotional or angry. It involves counting to three then sending them for a time out. We've been using it for about four months and while he still pushes the boundaries a lot, I feel much calmer and in control. I would definitely recommend reading the book as all the details and examples made me more confident to carry it out.

[Ohyesiam]

Google Hand in Hand Parenting courses, it's a really really different approach and get amazing results. It totally changed our family dynamic, so much better.

[MadJeffBarn]

opal that sounds like great advice! I'm finding it harder and harder to hold my temper. This sounds like a good coping mechanism!
It takes a long time. Alot of arguing, alot of shouting. Today was a slight victory, she actually tidied her bedroom without too much fuss. I told her her friend wouldn't stay again if they leave the room in that state again!

[OpalFruitsMarathonsandSpira]

When you pick your battle, then physically anchor yourself to something. Door handle, chair, washing up liquid bottle... Focus on the anchor and ignore all the shit she throws at you. Intermittently and robotically repeat your instructions/rules. Don't let go of anchor!

[DevelopingDetritus]

I've just read your OP again. Have you sat down quietly with her and asked her why she carries on like this?

[DevelopingDetritus]

*she must not win the battle.

[DevelopingDetritus]

Oh, they don't half test you don't they OP, she sounds very bright.
When You say no, do you really mean it and stick to it at all costs?

[MadJeffBarn]

and on which is why I'm trying my hardest to rein it in now :( no she's not special needs. Just a very strong willed, strong minded little lady who's thinks she's older than she is.