to think you're not a 'home owner' if you are still paying a mortgage on it

[pipsqueak25]

prepared to be flamed but over heard a conversation of a loud guy the other day and it really irritated me. the jest being ' got my mortgage last year, £260,000, in my name so she can't get the house [knob], now i can do what i fucking well like with it, gonna knock out the interior and do open up stuff, blah,blah' eh?? so he's splitting with his dp/dh and possibly going to knock half the house down that he does nor own because he's paying a mortgage and the bank owns most of the house ? er, knob, you aren't a home owner until you've paid in full for it !
mainly i felt sorry for the ex, but glad she was going to be rid of him!

[gillybeanz]

Narky

Some people like to think this way, myself included.
I will say I'm a home owner on all our properties, but really there's only the home we live in that belongs to us, mortgage free.

Of course the other properties are ours, but they could be repossessed if payments not kept up, so from a business pov I look at them as belonging to the Halifax.

I think it's a good way to think, but only my opinion, I don't think it's fact because it isn't.

[NarkyMcDinkyChops]

Oh lord.

Ok poor wording, but I don't know legalese

You don't need to, its a very simple concept.

I part own the house: bank has 400, I have twice that
The bank doesn't own any part of your house, at all.

I may not be renting but I don't own the whole property
Yes you do.

I also have to work to pay the mortgage
What has that got to do with anything?

You know when you take out a mortgage, does no-one check that you actually know what one is?

[NerrSnerr]

I'd be pretty pissed off if the bank decided to sell off my house (if I was paying my mortgage) or they wanted to inspect it to make sure i was keeping up with the upkeep. Saying that, as PP have said we do have a couple of repairs that need doing so maybe they'll sort those for us.

I do have about 22 years left on my mortgage but our house is still ours. Our names are on the deeds.

[steff13]

Why is that a good way to think? What benefit is it to you to think that way?

[allchattedout]

Look, anything of anyone's can be taken from them if they have debts. If you go bankrupt, the trustee takes everything and sells it. It's really dumb to think about mortgages as renting from the bank. You are not.
Property values are all relative anyway. You could have a mortgage free house worth £250k. Tomorrow, there could be a property slump and suddenly your house is only worth £180k. You could own a mortgage free house that becomes subject to a compulsory purchase order and you will lose your home.
Anyway, the OP massively lost credit when she started fawning over some 22 year old home owner and made out like it was the greatest thing anyone had ever done. Even though that person had a mortgage.

[NarkyMcDinkyChops]

Some people like to think this way, myself included

It doesn't matter how you like to think of it, its not true. You might like to think that the moon is made of green cheese, but it doesn't make it so.

[diddl]

"er, knob, you aren't a home owner until you've paid in full for it !"

Don't think that he's the knob tbh.

[MixedGrill]

YES, you do own it Kennington. But you also have a matching debt. So your balance sheet, if you like, is zero, unless you have equity.

Because your asset, your house, owned by you, is matched by borrowing.

If you cannot repay the debt and it's interest the bank will take your asset and sell It to pay off the debt.

'Morally' having a zero balance sheet- value of your house matches value of debt - can feel as if the bank owns your house, but that isn't factually or technically correct.

So Koala was correct and the OP was using a figure of speech.

[NewPuppyMum]

OP, I think you're splitting hairs as it's obvious you don't like him.

[ANameToHide]

From the day my FB and sil bought their house he goes on about he's the only one who owns a house out of my siblings and who can afford a brand new car. He'd go on about how much his house and car is worth. He hates it when I say yeah well I'm debt free.

He is a lovely bloke most of the time but comes across quite snobby and ashamed of his working class background. Speaking like he works to pay benefits for the works hy. He'll also often make comments about "working hard" to have what he has and says anyone have what he has etc etc.. He forgets that we are different in that he had his DC and his life didn't change as his wife did everything for him while on maternity leave and then was able to return and work whatever hours she wanted as they have unlimited free childcare. I can't do that as we didn't have any childcare and I couldn't earn enough to pay for a full time solution, so it was my job that went on hold. Doesn't mean we don't work hard and my poor mother has worked so hard to provide for us that her hands were often bleeding, she could have done what she did all day and all night and would never be able to buy a house.

Saying all that I worry like fuck about him, they are not high earners, they overpaid massively on their house and it's impacting them now, their mortgage payments go up and they have to tighten belts. They use credit cards a bit more each month and my brother has been told he has to take it easy or he's going to be back in intensive care with his heart. He's trying but at the same time they need his wage. My db is stressed, I can see it, he's worried, he says he knows the house won't be lost if he dies as his life insurance will pay it off. I keep telling him his DC would rather have their Dad alive.

[Kennington]

Hi my comment that I work to pay my mortgage is because if I don't work then it won't be long before the bank will get shirty and want a mortgage payment.
I reckon 6 months out of work and I would be out my house. Therefore this isn't really home ownership. It is more precarious from my point of view. Which of course isn't a legal one!

[ANameToHide]

@mixedgrill can I ask how serious being in "negative equity" is? My db said they've been in negative equity from about four years after taking out the mortgage, (they are now at 12 years into paying) they made a few home improvements but he said they've been told it's very unlikely the housing market will be like it was when he bought and they will always be in negative equity. They have a type of mortgage that means payments often adjust and he shits himself when Bank of England announce interest rates.

I'll admit I'm clueless about mortgages as I don't have one, don't feel like you have to answer if it's complicated, I'll google later on, it was your balance sheet comment made me ask.

[EnormousTiger]

Anyone who knows the law and English knows that those who own with a loan still own. that is Wnglish law. Anyone saying otherwise is just plain wrong.

The property if registered title has a register of the owner and it will be the individual.

Now it is obviously accurate to say I am a home owner. It woud be inccurate to day I do not have a mortgage but that is a different issue. My 3 older children own a property even if there is a mortgage on it. They own as much I do - I have paid my mortgage off. We all own the place.

It remains sensible to try to pay off mortgages early and over pay if you can which is what we have always done.

[allchattedout]

@mixedgrill can I ask how serious being in "negative equity" is?

It means that the loan is more than the value of the house. It is technically not a huge problem if they are planning on staying there long term, but if they were to sell, they would need to pay the entire proceeds to the bank, plus the surplus. So they would get nothing from the sale and still owe money. When they come to the end of the mortgage term (in 25 years or whatever) they will need to find the surplus and pay it.
It also means that they will be stuck on the original mortgage rate and will be unable to remortgage to get a better interest rate. It sounds like they have been unlucky.

[amispartacus]

I own my home..

BUT - I owe the bank a lot of money. So should for some reason want that money back, I would be forced to sell.

If I sold the house and didn't tell them, I think they might get annoyed. In fact, I don't think I can sell the house without tellling them, can I?

[NarkyMcDinkyChops]

I reckon 6 months out of work and I would be out my house. Therefore this isn't really home ownership

It is though. That ownership can be removed from you, but that doesn't mean you don't have it.

[gillybeanz]

of course people understand what a mortgage is, that doesn't stop them from thinking in a way that suits them.
I understand mortgages very well as I've had several now, and remortgaged several times too.
However, I choose to think that my mortgaged properties belong to the bank, it works for us.
I'm not stupid I know they are my houses as long as I keep up my mortgage repayments.

I find it sad that some people aren't aware of what their mortgage deal means, but that's a bit different.
My ds1 a mortgage broker, not been doing it long.
Had a client a few weeks back that he could have wept for. How do you tell an older person that the mortgage payments they have made have been interest only, you can't sell your home for a profit as the bank needs however many years payment you missed by paying interest only.
He asked a colleague if this happened often, he assured him it wasn't common, but the fact it happens at all is very sad.
People need to understand the terms and conditions of their mortgage, what they are signing up to, it's surprising and quite scary how many don't.

[MagicMoments22]

Narky & Wizard at least there is some sense on here

[NarkyMcDinkyChops]

If you choose to pretend to believe something that you say you know is not true, that is your own convoluted mental gymnastics to deal with.
I don't see it being to lot of people here who clearly don't understand how morrtgages work!

[TheFirstMrsDV]

MN is the only place I have seen anyone say they are not a homeowner because they have a mortgage.
Usually on benefit/council house threads where someone who owns their own house is complaining that someone got given a free council house and its not fair.

A house is a massive asset. I can't believe we have got to the point where people feel sorry for themselves because they are lucky enough to own their own property.

[amispartacus]

A house is a massive asset

It's a strange one though. Its value can go up as well as down. It's only worth what someone will pay for it - as most assets do.

If you want to move to a new location, the value of this asset may affect your ability to move.

[Notyetthere]

I see my mortgage debt as the bank owns my house. Every payment I make per month I see it as paying for some square footage. Every year that passes I own a few more bricks of the house.

But really if I defaulted the bank would take it all. I will feel more comfortable when we get to a point where if finances were stretched, we could sell and hopefully buy somewhere smaller and cheaper.

[gillybeanz]

Narky

I totally agree and that's why I haven't joined in with the opinion it's not yours until mortgage is paid.
I own all our properties both mortgaged and unmortgaged.
My own mental gymnastics says something different though.
I don't think I'm right as I know otherwise, but it helps me manage my properties better this way.

[NarkyMcDinkyChops]

I see my mortgage debt as the bank owns my house

They don't though.