Awful row with dc- where did I go wrong?

[stillpinching]

I have just had the most awful incident with my children and need honest opinions about how it could have been avoided. I am reeling it was so shocking.

Ds2 (8) was home with me while ds1 (10) was at training with my ex. It was about 6pm and ds2 had been playing with aqua beads for a while but started to get frustrated. I was sorting things out for tomorrow, bit talking to him at the same time, so he wasn’t being ignored. I was thinking he was tired and about ready for bed. Then his brother came home and shortly after ds2 got down a massive tub of beads from a high shelf and said he was going to start on those. I said no way – you’re tired and it’s bed time, and took the beads from him. He starting arguing, which I ignored, and put the beads down, just missing the table top and spilling a fair few of them. It was annoying, but could have been worse, but ds2 started shouting it was my fault etc. Ds1 then started trying to appease him, and said he would clean them up. I said to leave it, I would do it later but he insisted.
Well, he cleaned up a small pile in about 90 seconds, which was fine and more than I expected him to do as he had not been involved at all in spilling them. He then started saying ds2 had to thank him, which ds2 flatly refused to do – as ds1 had known he would. It then escalated to shouting and arguing. I then realised there were loads of ds1’s toys under the kitchen table which would need putting away before bed. I told him this and he blew up – shouting that he’s a slave and I love ds2 more. He was roaring and hitting out at ds2, who was saying provocative things.
Then I blew up and sent them both to bed. There was shouting and I suppose I was fairly rough in ‘escorting them to their rooms’. Ds2 had to have a shower, so after putting 3 loads of washing away I called him out for his shower. By then ds1 had gone down and collected up his toys. During the shower ds2 repeatedly said he hates me, I’m always shouting (I do /did shout too much, but work on it all the time with a lot of success) and that I hurt him all the time (not true at all). He was going on and on and then said “I’m glad we’re hardly ever at yours as all you do is shout.” (They're at mine about 70% of the time) I then said fine he/they could go to their dad’s and to come down while I phoned him. I was shaking and crying.
They both came down, with ds1 telling ds2 to go away. Then ds1 hugged me and we all hugged and I apologised. I told them I was happy to ring their dad and wouldn’t be upset but they said no. We had lots more cuddles/talking etc and now they are both in bed- one asleep and one reading.
I know it was utterly awful and unacceptable but I just don’t know how we got from mild irritation at some spilt beans to where we ended up. Can anybody help?

[holidaysaregreat]

I imagine DS2 was having a lovely time on his own with you & then felt a bit jealous when DS1 walked in. He just didn't express it very well. If you all ended up in a group hug it doesn't sound so bad. At least you apologized, which not all adults do.

[Benedikte2]

OP never ever give the DC the option of changing the care arrangements, no matter what they say. This is too heavy a burden for children and all you need to say if they compare you unfavourably is to say "tough" and know in your heart that they are speaking in the heat of the moment, just as you did.
If the boys ever express the wish to live with their dad the decision needs to be taken calmly and not rushed and perhaps a trial period put in place first so all can have an opportunity to change their minds.
It is so hard coping by oneself when tempers are raised and you seem to have handled it well in the end.
Perhaps you could find time for a quiet talk with the boys separately to ask what they meant when they said they felt they weren't being treated fairly. I know you do treat them equally but if they have feelings of unfairness then these can be discussed and put to rest.
Good luck

[Recentlylazy]

OP you only did what millions of us have done. We all blow sometimes.

I love this thread (not you being upset OP) everyone has been lovely and constructive.

[Gooseygoosey12345]

Oh god I thought you were going to say something awful had happened! This really is NBD. Mummy guilt is shit but these things happen, no one is perfect all the time, not us and not our DCs. Tomorrow is another day :)

[HughJarss]

I have this quote framed and displayed in my bedroom, for times like this.

"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could; some blunders and absurdities have crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; you shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense." Emerson

It's my note-to-self 🌺

[GTS]

Buckle up OP, wait til secondary school and the massive attitude / mood swings start...you ain't seen nothin' yet!

Have a glass of wine and give yourself a break. Happens to all families, everywhere, regardless of family dynamic.

[Italiangreyhound]

stillpinching Part of me wants to say it is all normal and not to worry but I also think you can do some things better to make life easier for you.

I totally agree with Benedikte "...never ever give the DC the option of changing the care arrangements, no matter what they say. This is too heavy a burden for children and all you need to say if they compare you unfavourably is to say "tough" and know in your heart that they are speaking in the heat of the moment, just as you did."

[Italiangreyhound]

OP, you mentioned escorting them to their rooms, is that roughly getting them off to their rooms, no idea what exactly this means but if it is physical 'cajoling', please avoid it. They will be bigger and stronger and this will not work so please resort to logic, clear instruction and negotiation where necessary. Eight is too old to need to escort them and ten (IMHO) definitely is. My dd at 12 is now much stronger than me!

"I just feel bad because of threatening to ring their dad like it was a punishment. I am always dreading the day they say they want to live with him, or spend more time there than they already do, yet am acutely aware that it's their right if they want it."

Please stop offering/threatening more time with their dad, especially if you feel he is not a brilliant influence on them. You will make the thing you fear most more likely to happen, IMHO. Their dad should be neither a threat (I do understand why you said it but still) nor a treat.

The fact the children feel they spend less time with you may be because their time is full of everyday stuff. So maybe make the time that is spare, the family time, more positive if you can.

We have got Headbanz game and my kids (6 and 12) will happily play it (we got it from a charity shop for £1.50!). We also play lots of other board games and short family games like blow football with cotton balls, or mini basket ball with cotton balls using the other persons arms as the basket ball net!

These help to make family time better.

If you notice that things are hard when your kids come back from your ex's make sure the arrival back time can be a time of doing nice calm things and a sort of re-connecting.

Sorry if I sound preachy but I've had lots of advice on family dynamics as our son is adopted and we have had a lot of issues with dd, who has autistic tendencies.

If you have time to read up the Parenting Puzzle is fabulous. I did the course with it when dd was 8 and I was really struggling. DD was sometimes threatening to run away etc, being physically a bit violent or rather aggressive etc!

"I feel like I guilt-tripped them tonight. I also feel ds1 feels more responsible for things than he should."

Then move on, make sure you do not do things that you could perceive as guilt tripping (e.g. making them choose between you and their dad) and make sure your sons feel appreciated. EG the spilling of the beads was your fault, you missed the table. You could have thanked your older son and told him he did not need to demand a 'thank you' from your younger son.

BUT I really thought this would be a lot worse so sounds like you are doing a fabulous job, especially parenting alone. But if you feel you need to do somethings differently then you can make the change. Make sure you look after you too!

[BlueClearSkies]

I have been there many times with my kids. It can escalate in seconds. Especially on a Sunday night, never my favourite night.

However I do agree with others about not letting them choose to go to the other parent as a result of an argument/punishment with you.

Exh and I had an agreement that if the kids phoned to ask to go to the other because of an argument the other parent would not pick them up. DD between 11 and 13 would often phone her Df in tears because we had clashed. He would chat to her and try to calm her down, but would not over ride any punishment I had set and would not come and take her to his.

[Italiangreyhound]

BlueClearSkies that sounds like you and your ex have a really good, grown up, parenting relationship. I hear so often on here how things don't go well. Sounds like you've achieved something great.

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

Honestly OP I think similar scenes are being played out up and down the country every evening.

Take a spoonful of tired kids, a splash of frazzled mums, a sprinkling of guilt etc etc.

Tomorrow's a new day!

[BlueClearSkies]

Italiangreyhound It is not always grownup, but we do try. The difference is we had a great mediator who made us think about how to co parent and gave us different situations to talk about how we would manage them together. Most of the processes we agreed are still in place 10 years after the divorce, though adjusted slightly as the kids get older.

[Italiangreyhound]

Blue that is so good and shows that the mediation really worked.

[BumDNC]

I hear all the elements of this in my life, but nowadays I walk away from their bickering

This usually how it goes
DC1: I will help do x I don't mind
DC1: well I helped out don't you think everyone should say thank you?
DC2: thanks
Me: thanks
DC1: that thank you didn't sound like you meant it!! (Volume getting louder)
Me: ok that's getting loud we said thanks just leave it
DC1: IM ALWAYS DOING EVERYTHING SHES YOUR FAVOURITE!
Me: she isn't and don't shout at me (getting peeved now)
DC2: I think I am the favourite...
DC1: more yelling
Me: silently crying
DC2: smirking
Both: I hate you/her/this house/school/my life
Me: go to your rooms! No tv! No wifi!
AND REPEAT

Don't feel bad. It happens to us all. I don't threaten dad now because it ends up with him being good cop if I do it and they are good at making me look insane and incompetent.

[NovemberInDailyFailLand]

Both of them are beginning the demon that is male puberty. My poor middle ds was all over the place.