To think that whether someone wears make up or not shouldn't make a difference?

[2catsandadog]

Yesterday, I went to the hospital with my DS. I happened to be dressed smartly and have a full face of make up on. This is relatively unusual as I am a SAHM, and my uniform is jeans, jumpers and boots.

Usually at the hospital I am not listened to, I am talked over, I am patronised. Yesterday, they couldn't have been better. I was taken seriously, the consultant listened to what I said, I was told I had a good knowledge of the condition we were talking about (I did my research, that's why).

I was really pissed off that wearing make up (or maybe looking like I had come from the office) seems to make such a difference. What utter crap.

[Packergator]

Bounty- I sort of agree with that, but I apply more of a reverse psychology. I've often found that many of the 'intellectual' fields I've worked in (education/research/government) are very much more relaxed in terms of dress code than more 'client-facing' type jobs I've done (marketing/sales). So I do tend to judge and slightly pity people who have to get all suited and booted for work, whereas I can turn up in my skinnies and DMs and be taken quite seriously. I realise that this may not extend to the wider community but, to be frank, I don't care what they think of me and if I feel I'm being taken for a ride I'll use my smarts to get what I want, not a frock and a bit of slap!

[ProfYaffle]

I'm a SAHM, don't wear make up, quite scruffy, regional accent. Dh has a long term health condition and dd is on the waiting list for surgery at a different hospital. I've never had any problem talking to consultants intelligently and have them take me seriously.

I think it's probably true though that confidence, intelligence and a good vocabulary help enormously.

[BanjoStarz]

I once took my mom along to an appointment (couldn't drive so she had to). She was dressed to the nines in a full suit, make up etc but that's just what she wears as front of house staff at work...I've never been treated so well...we eventually asked one of the nurses who replied it was cos the dr thought she was my solicitor...

So, yep, I can well believe you would get treated differently depending on what you were wearing!

[StoppedClock]

I'm a doctor. I don't change how I speak to patients or relatives based on whether they are wearing make up or not. We are trained to adapt the words/phrases we use during consultations to fit the persons needs. This means if someone does/did research/scientific work they are likely to get a more scientific explanation compared to some one without that background. Interested to hear of your experience OP (and the replies).

[corythatwas]

StoppedClock, it wasn't just a case of using scientific words. It was one of those cases where an undiagnosed condition carries the possibility of Munchausen by proxy/parental abuse- and the doctor changed markedly in his attitude after my revelations. Suddenly he became open to exploring other possible explanations than my parenting. Quite frankly, my research (humanities) doesn't tell anyone a thing about whether I am a good parent, or whether I am good at spotting worrying symptoms in a child, or whether I am likely to be causing some of those symptoms myself. It is possible to speak 5 foreign languages and be a crap parent. Or to drop your aitches and know masses about child development. Even you might choose your vocabulary according to the perceived education level of the patient, there shouldn't be a marked difference in the willingness to explain and discuss.

Of course all of us who deal with patients, students or clients of any kind hope that we don't differentiate in a negative sense for reasons of gender, education or social status. But experiments carried out on school teachers have shown that their own perception of how they speak to different children, how much time they give them to speak, and what kind of language they use towards them does not always match the reality.

[steppemum]

2 years ago my mum (aged 72) was seriously ill in hospital, barely conscious a lot of the time.
As soon as she was well enough she asked me to bring in her clothes, and got herself dressed every day, instead of sitting in pjs.

She has nice clothes and ironically, as she was puffed up with water retention, she needed some of her nicest stuff as it was looser.

From the minute she got dressed she was treated differently. It wasn't that the nurses were bad before, but they treated her sweetly and like an old lady. As soon as she got dressed, and looked like a person, they spoke to her differently and reacted to her differently. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

I get treated differently by doctors/nurses when I mention that I used to be a scientist and now write up medical trials - there's far more equal treatment and actual detailed answers to my questions. I understand that they hold back due to presumed lack of knowledge to start with, but there's a world of difference between 'This WILL work' and 'This USUALLY works, well at least it has good results in trials, although admittedly that was in X population and so isn't conclusive'...... I vastly prefer option B.

I also marveled at how, at jabs time, a nurse went from softly-softly 'This will help baby' to no-nonsense stabbing him with the needle once I'd confirmed that I was very keen on vaccinations and wrote about them for a living complete dropping of the 'kindly nurse' persona!

[lalalalyra]

I found that people's attitudes do change depending on how you look. I have two false teeth at the front top after being whacked with a hockey stick at school. They are on a plate which broke a few weeks back. I had to go two days with no front teeth as my baby DD had hospital stuff that couldn't be rescheduled. It wasn't just a confidence thing either, my BIL noticed a considerable difference when they realised he was with me. He'd been at the last appointment as well and was extremely annoyed by the difference.

[StoppedClock]

I wasn't intending to comment on your specific example corythatwas.
I obviously can't comment on what happened with you and your child.

[DotForShort]

It is an unfortunate fact of life that clothing/makeup does affect the way that many people respond or interact with others. Of course, it doesn't always happen.

My cousin once attended an open house event for a Montessori school she was considering for her 4-year-old daughter. Parents and children had been invited to meet the teachers, see the school facilities, etc. Most of the children were dressed in their finest attire. My cousin made the conscious decision to dress her daughter in an ordinary outfit, the sort of clothes she would wear every day. She wanted to observe how the teachers interacted with the children, to see whether they would make any sort of distinction between the children dressed to the nines and her child. As it happens, she was very pleased that there was no observable difference in the teachers' behaviour. It was one small indication that the school would be the sort of environment she wanted for her child.

[steppemum]

Dot - as an ex teacher I am somewhat bemused by your post actually.

I don't think I have ever treated a child differently dependingon what they were wearing, mainly because it isn't their choice, and most teachers are passionate about equal opportunities for all.

Now, treating parents differently depending on how they look, is, I would think common sadly.

[Colby43443]

Cory - but when you don't look the part surely you then have to work harder to be heard? I can usually command a lot of respect just by walking into the room, as I'm nicely dressed and wear a bit of makeup, and I don't even have to do or any anything really. I suppose my profession helps a bit when if it's an appoinggment.

[DotForShort]

My anecdote was meant as an illustration of my cousin's awareness of unconscious bias. She knew the population of the school was fairly affluent, and she correctly predicted that most of the children would be dressed up. Her decision to dress her child in ordinary clothing was simply a minor way to see whether any observable bias would come into play. My cousin was a teacher herself at the time and well aware that the playing field is far from level in many school settings.

[eyespydreams]

I have done the reverse, OP, gone from vv professional appearance, def the 'one of us' aspect, to sahm in the usual jeans, jumper and trainers. I have sometimes noticed (not always) exactly the same thing but back to front, like doctors and nurses talking down to me... I mean, I'm really not going to put on a tailored dress and tights to take my toddler to the doctor but perhaps I should I have often thought! And it's def not a confidence thing from me, their attitude changes once I react (politely but negatively) to people talking down to me.

'Now this might hurt baby' haha exactly!

[2catsandadog]

Well, having had the day to think about it all, I think it's clear that it is partly a reaction to me, be it confidence or cosmetics, and partly my own reaction to being out of my usual clothes and having a face on.

It's really interesting to hear that I am not the only one to notice this.

[Bountybarsyuk]

Maui and packer interesting points, I think the thing is that if you are the one with the status, you can choose to dress down. So, I quite often wear jeans when attending conferences I'm speaking at, although with a smart jacket, as I like that look and I feel confident, and in my field, that won't be considered badly. However, in a medical encounter, you are not the one with the status, you need the other person to respect and listen to you and take you seriously, and although Drs are now taught about breaking through stereotypes and unconscious biases, they are also human and sometimes judgmental. I've interviewed lots, and I'm afraid they differ enormously in their attitudes to the 'less fortunate' to very sympathetic and with good listening skills, to downright patronizing and actually not treating them the same (as in offering the same medications) as more middle-class patients.

I don't think make-up alone is the key though, as plenty of people wear no-makeup (like 99% of men) but it's part of a package and sometimes people in all walks of life are a bit lazy and stereotype and then are surprised someone isn't quite what they thought they were.

[CaraAspen]

I think it is true that people are treated differently if they present as educated and middle class. Doctors are only human, after all, and are as judgemental as the next person.

[JeepersMcoy]

People will judge you on how you look even if they don't realise they are doing it. I never wear makeup, but do keep a suit jacket on a hanger in my office that goes on when I need to meet certain senior managers who I have found respond to my suggestions more positivity if I am smart. However, if i have a meeting with the IT tech guys who all wear shorts or jeans I'll leave the suit jacket behind and just wear a cardi or jumper.

I find it quite interesting really. I am sure there are some studies about that have looked at his we make subconscious assumptions based on what people wear.

[specialsubject]

I never wear makeup and I assure you that no one walks over me.

Sticky red and black circles may make people take you less seriously, but if it is a decent job it isn't noticeable and so no one....notices.

I doubt face paint made a difference today.

[Grilledaubergines]

I think you probably gave an air of confidence because that's how you felt.

I always feel more 'together' when I put my make up on and have more confidence.

[Ohyesiam]

I used to be a nurse, and the thing I saw really sway the medical profession was class, particularly if there was any hint of a medical connection. Airily confident people with the "right" accent, clothes and background could have any consultant running around and moving mountains for them.
Used to make me want to punch someone....

[BackforGood]

Doesn't make a difference IME.
I've always been very casually dressed when I've taken any of mine to hospital for any reason, and I almost never wear make up, yet I've never been ignored, patronised, or any of the other things you've suggested

[KatherinaMinola]

Yes, it is about class - your attire and makeup was probably read as 'professional' in this case.

I don't wear makeup, but like PP I can deploy crispness and a Commanding Tone when necessary - which has the same effect.

[KatherinaMinola]

Are you middle class, BackforGood? If so, it won't matter what you wear.

[Kennington]

I think people respond better to confidence. So if you are wearing make up you may feel more confident.
Being articulate helps - it isn't the accent but the content too.
Often if someone is telling a story that is confused they won't get a good response in a shop or at the doctors. I suppose it is just human nature but it is a shame still.