They can't let themselves into my home like this, can they?

[GoGlobalGloria]

Had a letter from letting agent to say the gas safety check is due. Been here five years and my landlord (who is lovely) usually arranges this without the letting agent involved as it is cheaper for him.

The tone of the letter is quite nasty. Apparently the engineer will be coming on Friday and will have keys to let himself in. He has apparently tried several times to contact me (he hasn't) but has had no response.

I am very unhappy about a total stranger letting himself into my home, particularly as I won't be here on Friday. The landlord is unhappy about it too, he knows nothing about it and wants to use his own bloke as usual.

Before I send an angry email, just want to make sure I can legally refuse this? I know the gas safety check is a legal requirement and I am not intending to refuse to have one. I just want it at a convenient time when I am at home, and my landlord wants it to be someone he has authorised.

[Trifleorbust]

It doesn't really matter who the end customer is. When the LL rents out the property they relinquish the right to unfettered access.

[PenguinsandPebbles]

The tenant is still the end customer, and the rent they pay is still what is paying for the agent to run the property no matter how you cut the mustard, or who signs what agreement.

I really don't see people jumping on the "landlord hate wagon" as such, I may have missed it what I see is people explaining what legal right the OP has with regards to access to her home that the letting agent is demanding.

[specialsubject]

Let landlord sort it. He will want to use his own gas person as before given what the agency will charge.tell him what has happened as agency are taking the piss.

Tenancy between landlord and agent. Agency agreement between landlord and agent. Two different things , fun as it is to jump on the landlord hate bandwagon with journo crap. Agencies not regulated.

Landlords /agents can be in trouble for letting themselves in, even for gas cert as it isn't an emergency.

[PenguinsandPebbles]

In no other business model would people be on the side of the supplier, the tennant is the customer the landlord is the supplier the letting agent is the intermediate between the too.

[PenguinsandPebbles]

Maybe if tenants pay the fees they can be looked at as the clients! Don't think they will go for that somehow!

Of course the tennant pays the fee, even if it's indirectly. To rent a property via a letting agent is 9 times out of 10 more expensive, because the rental price is increased to cover this cost.

[HelenaDove]

Penguins it is a huge gap in consumer law that needs changing. The landlords are seen as the customer and the tenants are seen as a nuisance at best and collateral damage at worst.

Ive seen instances where engineers have failed to turn up to gas safety checks SEVEN times in a row to the same tenant. But the tenant is not seen as the customer even though it is their time being wasted. There are loads of complaints on the fb pages and twitter feeds of some of the companies who have taken on these contracts.

[user1471446905]

Maybe if tenants pay the fees they can be looked at as the clients! Don't think they will go for that somehow!

[PenguinsandPebbles]

I just think many tenants think they have to allow what ever a landlord or letting agent wants, when in reality they really don't.

I also think that is why the letters are written in "that tone" because by writing them in this way the tennant is put on a back foot become a bit nervous and doesn't want to cause a fuss in case they loose their home, so they end up bending over backwards and putting up with more than they really have too.

In reality the letting agent just wants to arrange and get on with the job whatever that may be as they can then move onto the next thing, they don't want to waste time taking into account the tenants preferences.

So often they see tennant as second class citizens with the landlords being their clients. In my view it's the tenants who should be seen as the customers as they are the ones actually handing over the money to live in the property.

But also agree if on good terms with the landlord he/she needs to just say no! Maybe they are just as scared of the letting agent

[thisisafakename]

It's not in her best interest not to let them do this work, of course it isn't but this is not the issue she wants to know does she have to let them have access to her home without her being there at a time that is not convenient for her, because she has been sent a demanding letter from the agent and the answer to this is that she does not have to let them in until it is convenient to her, and that is her right as a tenant

Oh, I agree that she should be within her rights to rearrange the appointment to a suitable time. However, obviously ultimately the check has to be carried out and access will need to be gained at some point.

Regarding the tone of the letter, it might be that estate agents sometimes write in quite 'matter of fact' style that might come across as hostile to tenants. I have (sadly) rented for many years and have encountered crappy letting agents, but I think my advice is to pick your battles. I have never had an issue with allowing people in to do repairs even if I am not there, but I can of course appreciate that others feel more strongly about wanting to be there.

But as I said before, this should be a non-issue because the landlord can just call the estate agent to cancel the appointment.

[PenguinsandPebbles]

Well, but it's also an implied term in any lease that a tenant must give the landlord reasonable access for repairs and inspections. It is also likely that an assured shorthold tenancy contains an express clause stating that the tenant must give reasonable access.

But as a tennant you can refuse, it is my interpretation of reasonable as a tennant that counts, it might not be in the best interest of the tennant but the tennant can still ultimately refuse and then the only way the landlord or agent can gain entry is via a court order.

It's not in her best interest not to let them do this work, of course it isn't but this is not the issue she wants to know does she have to let them have access to her home without her being there at a time that is not convenient for her, because she has been sent a demanding letter from the agent and the answer to this is that she does not have to let them in until it is convenient to her, and that is her right as a tenant.

[user1471446905]

I also wonder about this 'nasty' tone. It sound like a simple issue that can be resolves without any problems. The landlord simply needs to advise the letting agency that he is sorting out the gas cert. This does not need to be a great dramatic battle, however your use of the word 'nasty' about the letter makes me wonder if you are hoping for a battle or conflict.

[Trifleorbust]

This is what the CAB has to say:

Your landlord also has a right to enter the property to inspect the state of repair or to empty a fuel slot meter, but they should always ask for your permission and should give you at least 24 hours notice.

If you are staying in lodgings where it is agreed that your landlord provides a room-cleaning service or where you share a room with other lodgers, your landlord can enter without permission.

Your landlord does not have a right to enter in any other circumstances unless they have a court order.

So they need your permission, unless it is an emergency OR they have a court order. An agent of your LL and your LL are interchangeable here. The tenancy agreement may back them up in court if they are trying to get a court order to enter the property, but they CAN'T enter if you have denied permission unless it is an emergency.

[shillwheeler]

Agree liletsthepink. That's why I walked, but standard with some national agencies.

[WLF46]

Are you sure that the tone is 'nasty'? Why would it be?

As someone who rented for many years I can assure you that letters from letting agencies can be nasty, intimidating, dismissive and downright unpleasant - and that's when you've paid your rent on time, every time the whole time you've been there.

They are a business, they are there to make money out of you. They don't care whether their letter sounds nasty or not. They don't care that the person receiving it might be vulnerable. They can just demand access to your home at a time of their choosing, and threaten you with excessive charges before you've even thought about asking them to reschedule.

One of most peoples' basic needs is the security and safety of a home. Somewhere where they have the right to refuse to let people in if they don't want to. By their very nature, letting agencies have to trample on this basic right, and by their very nature this can seem "nasty".

If you've never rented for more than a few months (especially from an agency) and have never owned a leasehold flat, you don't know how lucky you've been.

[shillwheeler]

It does depend upon the terms of your contract. Entry into the property for a specific reason (and subject to certain conditions like notice) is not incompatible with quiet enjoyment necessarily.

That said, most tenancy agreements require the giving of notice except for cases of real emergency and the agent should definitely try and agree a mutually convenient time for the gas safety inspection.

I would tell them that you are not happy, the engineer has not contacted you and you do not consent. At the same time make arrangements with your landlord. Better, get the landlord to tell the agents and cc. you in.

I had this all the time with my old agents (as a landlord). I suspect because they get a kick back from their tame engineers. They got pretty threatening with me, as a landlord, so can think what they were like with the tenant. It's important to get the gas safety checks done, and they have to be done every year before the due date. I'd speak to your landlord, agree a date, then send a stiffly worded email to the agent.

[liletsthepink]

Your landlord needs to email the agent (so it's written evidence) to say he doesn't give permission for this inspection, won't be paying for it and will arrange his own engineer to provide the inspection. As long as your landlord's usual engineer is corgi registered a gas safety certificate will be valid. Your landlord should think about using a different letting agent instead of renewing when he gets to the end of the contract term.

You have every right to refuse entry for an inspection that has been arranged without your agreement.

The agents sound like they don't care about how they treat their tenents or landlords which is a very effective way to lose business to their competitors!

[thisisafakename]

Actually a tenant has every right to refuse access

Well, but it's also an implied term in any lease that a tenant must give the landlord reasonable access for repairs and inspections. It is also likely that an assured shorthold tenancy contains an express clause stating that the tenant must give reasonable access. Obviously the law is pretty strict on gas safety checks, and yes, the tenant does have to allow reasonable access for this to take place. However, rearranging to a suitable date when she is available would be fine in the circumstances.

[HelenaDove]

He claims he tried to call OP several times but hasnt.


I think lying is nasty.

[thisisafakename]

Are you sure that the tone is 'nasty'? Why would it be? Usually the letting agents will just inform you of this so that you know it's taking place (because it has to take place) and that you don't need to be in.

But all of this can just be sorted by the landlord calling the letting agency. Why is paying them to manage it when he clearly already deals with you directly and has his own tradespeople? Seems like a huge waste of money to me.

[PenguinsandPebbles]

Actually a tenant has every right to refuse access.

The 24 hours notice is an implied term and therefore if a tennant refuses the landlord or agent cannot just simply enter, they would have to go to court and get a court order to get access to the property.

It is however not wise to do this constantly but legally a tennant does not have to allow anyone into the property.

[Trifleorbust]

It doesn't depend on the tenancy agreement. Tenancy agreements (like any contract) cannot specify things which are illegal. People cannot let themselves into a private residence without the permission of the occupant unless it is an emergency. There is a right of reasonable access to inspect the property etc., but the tenant has the right to refuse on reasonable grounds and reschedule.

[Rainbunny]

I'm curious as to why your landlord seems so powerless in this situation? The letting agent surely can't dictate things to the landlord? If the landlord wants a particular person to conduct the check then he should be able to decide who he uses NOT the letting agents. I hope your landlord gets into it with them and sorts it out.

[HelenaDove]

A fb review.




"Well Liberty Gas you've surpassed yourself this time! 8.30am I was awoken to bailiffs hammering the door down as we'd allegedly denied access to you on several occasions. WTF!?! Bailiffs and Council retreated apologetically when CCTV proved you had NOT been when you claimed. I even have emails as proof! I am a disabled tenant with a young child. Can you imagine how frightening this situation was when still half asleep? How dare you! I've lived here for 20yr and only had problems for the last five....ever since LG won the contract. Do not label me as a POS just because I live in social housing. How are you guys still in business? LOOK AT YOUR REVIEWS!! Leicester County Council/Hinckley & Bosworth Borough Council WAKE UP to the clowns you are employing. Roll on 11am when Liberty Gas are meant to be turning up to service the 25yr old fire & back boiler (Watch this space for an update people!). Believe me when I say this as I mean it 100% ~ HEADS WILL ROLL FOR THIS INCOMPETENCE! "

[HelenaDove]

Eleanor its not unusual at all. Ive seen many complaints about several no shows from gas engineers and it being blamed on the tenants.

[WLF46]

Unfortunately tenants rarely have the right to stop access in the situation you describe. It would depend on your contract of course, but they usually have a clause saying something along the lines of "the tenant will allow access at a reasonable hour for the landlord or agent (or someone appointed by them) for the purposes of examining the condition of the property, making repairs or carrying out legal requirements." They usually also say that they only have to give 24 hours notice, except in an emergency (ie, if it's an emergency in their opinion they don't have to give notice at all).

You might be able to fight it by saying the time is not convenient, but not prevent it happening altogether. You have a right to "quiet enjoyment" (ie, the landlord can't let himself in whenever he likes for no valid reason) but this would not extend to the current situation, unless they were trying to gain access to your home every couple of weeks.

When does the annual safety check fall due? If it expires on Friday, they legally have to do the inspection by then.

You could take the landlord/agent to court if they were harassing you, but on the evidence you provided they are not doing that - just going about their business in an unfriendly and nasty manner. It's the agency's business, they don't give a damn that it's your home.

Tenancy agreements are heavily biased against the tenant, because the landlord and agent know they can get away with it.

It's shit, but there you go. Sorry.