to think that my 5 year old doesn't need to learn about Remembrance Day?

[RedDenmanBrush]

DD has been painting lots of pictures of poppies. They have a 'poppy play' area in class this week with toy soldiers. They have also watched a video about a rabbit in a field of poppies.

I think this is really.... off. I don't think it should be diluted into paint and sparkles. I think it is too important for that

[Scaredycat3000]

e That poem is lovely, it's what poppies should be about. But that's not what poppies are about in 2016, it's slap bands, crystal brooches and how much money can we raise.

[e1y1]

I think this poem sums it up well:

"More than a Poppy"

I am not a badge of honour,
I am not a racist smear,
I am not a fashion statement,
To be worn but once a year,
I am not glorification
Of conflict or of war.
I am not a paper ornament
A token,
I am more.

I am a loving memory,
Of a father or a son,
A permanent reminder
Of each and every one.

I'm paper or enamel
I’m old or shining new,
I’m a way of saying thank you,
To every one of you.

I am a simple poppy
A Reminder to you all,
That courage faith and honour,
Will stand where heroes fall.

[weegiemum]

We find doing poppies hard, and neither dh or I wear them.

My paternal grandfather, who I remember well (he died when I was 16) was in the RAF in WW2, my other grandad was in a reserved occupation (coal mining) and in the home guard. So far, so good.

Dhs maternal grandfather was never called up as there wasn't conscription in N.Ireland.

His paternal grandfather was a pilot in the Luftwaffe and his grandmother a prominent part of the Hitler Youth. Because they were German. Thats what they did. By 1945 Opa was a russian prisoner of war and Omi a young "widowed" mother of 2.

We don't wear poppies because of the british triumphalism that goes with them.

My grandads, both of them, never wore a poppy. Dh just feels he can't, given his heritage.

And we both don't like the thing that poppies have become, an unthinking support of forces in wars we don't accept or agree too.

Our children have the choice (they're teenagers) and none of them choose to. They bear a German surname. Both dd1 and ds have been to the ww1 battlefields with school, who were incredibly good and they found german graves with a name very similar to ours. Neither want to wear poppies as "its not for them".

[Scaredycat3000]

My 7 yr old thinks it's all about slap bands with poppies on. Bangs head against wall, runs away very fast. Yes schools are doing a great job teaching our young. Throws some poppy shaped glitter as I run.
*all available at the tuck shop during morning break.

I will talk to him a little nearer the time so he's focused on the 11th unless school confuse him even more. Commercialising Remembrance day, honestly.

[PotatoCakeMixes]

I'm late forties, and remember most people wearing poppies when I was little. We knew what they meant. Sunday afternoon films were inevitably about war, death and heroism. Including civilian heroism. Carve her name with pride and ice cold at Alex had an impact on me at an early age.

[BackforGood]

YABU to make your title, and your OP opposing.

First you say you think your 5 yr old doesn't need to learn about Remembrance Day, then you say they aren't learning enough

It's no wonder people are finding it difficult to know which part to answer.

From what you say it sounds they are doing things well. Most schools sell poppies, so they have to talk to the dc first about what it is all about and why they are selling them. The dc will see people wearing poppies all around them - again, all comes under 'Knowledge and Understanding of the World'. Then they have to learn things in different learning styles, to enable all the dc to get an understanding and to then remember what they have learned - hence things like paintings, and the BBC video to help explain things to those dc who learn well through graphics.

[sirfredfredgeorge]

If it's all about painting and rabbits and playing with poppies, then you're right, it's not appropriate. Hopefully it's just a misunderstood bit by your 5 year old, and the actual discussion is more appropriate and actually includes some form of rememberance.

Your reall BU though because you framed your question as if they shouldn't be learning about rememberance day at all, which they should.

[limitedperiodonly]

They never wore poppies, I mean

[limitedperiodonly]

What does Remembrance Day mean to people these days?

My dad, who served in WWII and mum, who lived in London throughout the war and was called up to war work, never did. I'd ask them what it meant to them but they are both dead now.

When I was growing up, most people didn't wear them, though there were parades and services on Remembrance Sunday and poppies were sold at my junior school.

We used to run around the playground in the early 70s chanting: 'We won the war in 1964.' Seeing as my dad had served 30 years before, you'd think I'd have got that right. But maybe, despite having gone through it, he and my mum didn't think it was important for me to know.

[FleurThomas]

People died so you could have the freedom to debate this in your armchair OP. I think all kids should be forced to learn, at the very minimum, how very valuable are armed forces are. I don't think it should be down to parente like you at all.

[Flingmoo]

I agree the CBeebies rabbit film is very tasteful and just the right level for that age. It shows peril, sadness, and hope, all at a level that's not too frightening for a young child.

I also agree with the PP who said kids will see people wearing poppies and asking about it. My 2 year old was given a poppy today by someone when we were out and about and he played with it at home. Of course he won't know the meaning for years still but I don't see any problem with them getting used to seeing it as a symbol at this time of year, deeper understanding will come with time.

[SpunkyMummy]

*paint

[SpunkyMummy]

Of course it shouldn't be diluted into pain and sparkles.

But what do you want? Send them to one of these air raid reenactment shelters?
Or just not talk about it until they're 12 and then shock them with the whole thing in one go? (That's what happened to me, with the 3rd Reich. Seeing footage of KZ survivors when you're 12 and learning all this stuff in pretty much one of was seriously distressing.)

It's an important day. This is age appropriate.

[limitedperiodonly]

Aggressive insistence at remembrance and the wearing of poppies is a recent thing - probably post 2001 and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Before then you were pretty much left to your own devices unless you were Michael Foot and wore what the Sun deliberately falsely described as a donkey jacket - actually a rather smart and expensive Loden coat plus a poppy - to the Cenotaph. Then you were crucified as disrespecting Our Boys.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I think 5 year old are perfectly capable of learning about the horrors of war - they are very matter of fact. I wouldn't show them rotting bodies in shell holes, but there is nothing wrong with telling them that millions of people dies across lots of countries; men, women and children, and that people are still dying in wars across the world today.

[QuackDuckQuack]

In some ways learning at an age appropriate level early stops children from being hit by the full and very disturbing reality of war later in one go.

My DD covered Remembrance Day in reception last year and coming back to it in year 1 she remembers why we have a poppy and we have discussed the silence again. The only problem last year was that the learnt about Remembrance Day and Diwali at the same time and got a bit confused about which was which.

[MaddyHatter]

Our school did it as part of the Yr2 subject on learning about WW2.

Over the term they basically went through a much shortened timeline of the war.. so did the whole evacuee, ration books, women's land army, visited the RAF museum which has a WW2 display, then had their own VE/VJ day street party and then also covered Remembrance Day and what it symbolises.

It was done very tastefully and in an age appropriate manner for children aged 6/7

[babybythesea]

Why can't it be age appropriate for a a 5 year old though? You don't need to go into the horrors of war. Just 'soldiers have been to war and so we remember them by wearing poppies.'

[babybythesea]

I'm wondering what was actually said to the kids? Do you know for sure that all they did was glitter and paint? Or have they talked about soldiers, and painted pictures to link in with it but in the excitement of telling you about her day she's left out the bit she didn't think was important, and included the bit she enjoyed? Doesn't mean she hasn't heard it, just that at this stage it's not something she chose to pass on.
I wouldn't be surprised if she said something in a few weeks. Something else triggers it, or she just has had the time to process it and so can start to talk about it.

[Eolian]

OP I totally understood your title, and YANBU. There's teaching in an age-appropriate manner, and then there's teaching things which aren't and cannot be age-appropriate to a 5 year-old. Better to wait a couple of years until it can be explained properly than just say 'Yeah, we wear poppies, it's cultural' or dumb it down to the point that it's pointless. And yes, I'm certainly uncomfortable about a child that small learning about the horror of war.

[Aeroflotgirl]

YABVvU it part of the history of our country, and continuing the rememberence.

[alfagirl73]

Surely if the children are painting pictures and the poppy is introduced to them in this way... then when they see people wearing them, it will prompt questions, discussion etc. It creates an opportunity to open up a dialogue - be that with parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles - whoever. It's not disrespectful... it's about an age-appropriate way to get the kids thinking about it. Why not talk about what the child has been doing at school and then have a simple age-appropriate discussion about what it means? I was told about the wars very young... I don't remember a time when I didn't know about them or understand to SOME degree. It's not just up to the teachers to explain it either; we would do projects related to the war when we were at school - and then go home and ask parents and grandparents about it - it encouraged us to ask about it and have those conversations at home which to my mind is better than coming from a teacher.

[limitedperiodonly]

You are right. Remembrance is fetishised and cheapened.

[ReallyTired]

I think it's important for young children to learn about Rememberance in an age appriopiate way, that doesn't shy away too much from the fact that we are remembering people who died along time ago.

I am not sure I would be keen on the toy soldiers as war is not a game. I have no problem with small people painting poppies and holding a minute silence.

Are you uncomfortable about a small child learning about death and the horror of war?

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

How much of this is coming from the word of your 5 year old about what she's been doing at school?

They do have a tendency to focus on the bits that appeal to them e.g. paint and rabbits, leaving out the other details.