AIBU to think my boss is being a bit of an ar*e?

[bundybear]

Hello there wise people of Mumsnetlandia

So, my new(ish) boss announced out of the blue today that he is placing restrictions on our annual leave. No annual leave from mid-August to mid-October, with leave in 'exceptional circumstances' up until mid-December. This is not in our contracts which don't specify anything about when to take leave.

His argument is that it's our busiest time - the reality is that it's pretty bloody busy all year. We're a team of 6 and 4 of us have school age children. Summer childcare is a nightmare so most of us 4 take a chunk of leave in the summer. Not only does this stop that, I feel pretty aggrieved that it takes me away from my kids during the precious school holidays (I work flat-out in term time then try to be around in the hols) and cuts into family time making the possibility of getting away as a family even harder. Plus the restriction is essentially August to December - that's 4 whole months without leave, which doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Boss (man, no kids) says he's checked this with HR and he can 'do what he likes' with leave.

AIBU or is this worthy of a whinge to the Union?

[Littlebelina]

Hopefully the op has sorted this now as it was a year ago.....Hv22 you would be better pming the poster you want to chat to as I doubt they are still checking this thread

[EmilyChambers79]

DH's workplace did this. No annual leave from Jan to July. They were covered by a section in the employee contract which said something like the company can reject annual leave requests if the nature of the business is compromised.

Is there any wording in the holiday section of your contract that could be applied to it?

And I'd always check with ACAS.

[PerpendicularVincent]

I may have an idea where you work OP, as a friend of mine has reported similar issues in the department she manages, with a boss making unnecessary rules in an environment that has an ethos of flexibility. Could you work from home at all?

[NurseButtercup]

Hmmmm sounds like a "management" tactic to encourage people to leave.

Create unfavourable work environment = people will resign and leave.

I'm not cynical at all

I agree with suggestion upthread about collectively agreeing annual leave, plotting it on a planner and presenting it to him. (And moan to HR and Union in the background)

Good luck

[Hv22]

Bundybear
Ive seen your post regarding aspbergers and higher education, granted in 2011. I'm hoping to have a chat with you regarding this, and talk to you about resources etc. Needed. Would this be ok?

[BarbaraofSeville]

If you are all specialised in your roles and hard to replace, it sounds like you have bigger problems than when you can take holidays.

What would happen if one of you had to take extended sick leave? More than one person needs to be able to carry out each task. That would also give you more flexibility over taking holidays.

Not allowing holidays between August and December isn't really fair anyway. It's not just parents who want to take holidays at decent times of year.

September is a really popular time for people who aren't restricted to the school holidays to go away as weather is often still decent.

[Damia]

Do you have an official holiday chart or anything set up? So he could check it at all times and you could all be more aware that you cant have holiday all at the time?

[OliviaStabler]

I suspect the way to win him over is to go to him with a solution not a complaint.

Work out between yourselves a plan that ensures you will not be short staffed and can still take time as before. Gently remind him that employees happiness has great benefits and this would be a win win for both.

[topcat2014]

@bundy - I feel a bit hard done to now - we shut for Christmas week but it comes out of our leave joking

[LittleBooInABox]

If it's a change in contractual terms I think he'll find he has to give a months notice of the change. Which your free to disagree with. He can not just change the terms of your contract.

I'd complain to HR.

[bundybear]

Yes I agree, it can't be me but that's ok as everyone feels the same. Think we'll put our heads together and come up with a reasonable compromise to put to him.

[birdsdestiny]

I think your best bet is to try and demonstrate that it isn't going to work in terms of all staff trying to slot their holiday into 8 months instead of 12. I think the person who approaches the boss, should not be you, just because you have done the job before. I personally woulnt go for the discrimination issue as a starting point.

[bundybear]

Nope, purely office based but we do have whole-institution shut down for 10 days at Christmas and 5 days at Easter - this doesn't come out of annual leave though.

[bundybear]

Oh yes, care required but we're extremely specialised in our roles and relatively hard to replace - he's said previously that he can't afford to lose any of us which makes this all the more puzzling.

[topcat2014]

Good managers want their staff to take holiday - as it is good for morale etc.

This sounds like too many restrictions to me.

With 6 staff, who have 4 weeks holiday - that's twenty four weeks in total.
If they never crossed over that's six months with one person off.

Obviously that isn't feasible - so you would tend to allow two people off at the same time. Thus, each person can have some time off in August if they want.

Explain to the tit of a boss that everyone's jobs are important - or else there would be no need to employ them in the first place.

Restrictions on time just compress the holidays.

A caveat - in manufacturing it is not uncommon to have shutdowns - but assuming this is office work, he is being unreasonable in the extreme.

[Lizzie101]

Take care , try to be reasonable because if you are difficult about this you may find yourself restructured out of your role.

[bundybear]

We don't get overtime or lieu time, our contacts state we need to work the hours it takes to get the job done (but obviously this only works one way - we don't seem to be able to nick off early when we're quiet)

[cdtaylornats]

I suggest an overtime ban from mid-August to mid-October

[bundybear]

**my first thought after the first thought about school shoes

[bundybear]

My first thought was that it disproportionately affects mothers, so that's two protected characteristics covered - we work in equality (hahahahahahahaaaaa).

[GloriaGaynor]

Even if it's legal, if a group of you complain that you're in the job because of the flexible hours and working pattern together it's possible you may get him to reconsider. An exodus isn't going to make him look good. Depends how much of an arsehole he is.

Could it could be feasibly be construed as discrimination against working mothers?

[bundybear]

FinderofNeedles that's a very good plan. We could do it as a whole team, which is kind of what we do anyway, but not formally.

[Lorelei76]

If he was genuinely addressing a business need that would be one thing
But this doesn't sound like the case

[SabineUndine]

Wouldn't be surprised if he wants to take his own leave in September. In my first job I was told I couldn't:

• take time off when anyone else did (although two of the 3 people I worked with always took the same fortnight)
  
• take more than two weeks
  
• take time off before or after Christmas
  

In the end I said sweetly: 'Would you like to tell me when I CAN take time off please?'

[bundybear]

I actually managed the same team for 2 years on an interim secondment thing, so anything I say always sounds like sour grapes... But when I was manager I let people take leave whenever they liked as long as their caseloads were under control and contingencies planned for and there was never a single problem. Plus productivity went way up and absenteeism went way down. But what would I know