to be nervous about a Single Sex school

[fruitstick]

DS has opportunity to choose between two great schools.

One is large co-ed and the other is a smaller boys' school.

The boys' school has a better reputation but instinctively I think DS would prefer mixed.

I went to a single sex school and loved it so I'm very confused.

I'm not sure whether my feminist principles are getting in the way.

He says he wants the mixed school too but I'm conscious they change an awful lot between year 6 and year 13!

[ForalltheSaints]

I would have hated the local all-boys school if I had gone there- used the excuse that I did not like rugby or Saturday morning school to persuade my parents not to apply for a place there. However, for girls a single sex school seems to offer advantages. You cannot have mixed for boys and single sex for girls though.

[ncayley115]

Single sex! Less distractions! And he will still meet girls and interact with them.

[Nataleejah]

Single sex schools are weird in our day an age. Its not Saudi Arabia

[YuckYuckEwwww]

I find myself keeping male aquantances at a friendly arms length because I feel like any closeness will = flirty/sexual.

So I have no close male friends, I do blame that on single sex schooling. I don't really know how to get on with men if not in a flirty way so I tend to probably be a bit offish so as not to "give the wrong impression".

Which is a shame because I do know some really lovely men, who would be great friend material.

[YuckYuckEwwww]

I feel with my girls (who will probably have to go single sex due to lack of choice if you're not catholic round here ) I will have to work really hard to give them opportunities to develop platonic relationships with boys: scouting etc, because if they just see boys socially and not in any context where they're working together then I worry it'll be like my school where we didn't really build platonic relationships with boys, we just socialised with them in a flirty/sexual way, and into adult hood I struggle with platonic relationships with men.

[Snapdrag0n]

I find single sex schools a strange concept, there is a continuous plight within society for men and women to be given the same equal rights and yet there is still a feeling that it can be more beneficial for them to be educated separately as children. I would find it difficult to explain to my DS why I wanted him to go to a single sex school without it sounding in some way detrimental to the opposite sex.

[YuckYuckEwwww]

I've heard some pretty dreadful story's about the things the girls from a local extremely high achieving girls school get upto at parties so it's certainly not sheltered from them

Yeah the thing is (was) with the all girls school I went to was that once we DID get around boys, we didn't know how to be "normal" around them and it was all about sex, that was the only way most of us knew how to relate to boys. and the teen pregnancy rate at my single sex school was higher than at any of the co-eds.

I was in awe of my co-ed going girlfriends who had the confidence to hang out with boys in normal jumpers and jeans (not all covered in slap and high heels like us if we were going anywhere where there'ld be boys) and how they could just be normal/friends around them while all we know how to do was kinda pout and pose and giggle!

[chopchopchop]

Good luck with that, and I'll keep an eye out for the thread.

[crispandcheesesanwichplease]

chop, yes I think I will approach school. I've contacted a number of mums of other girls at the school in the meanwhile and will await their feedback first. I think I'm also going to start a new thread about this issue as I feel like we've hijacked the op's original thread!

[chopchopchop]

Yes, I would go in under those circumstances. Not in a 'this is happening to my DD and you must sort it out' kind of way, but to discuss what they see happening in terms of sexist behaviour and whether the school should be doing some general PHSE work on the subject and lowering their tolerance for this kind of behaviour. If this was racism going on at this level, they'd be on it like a ferret, so I don't see why sexism should be any different.

I also had a big bust, so I entirely feel for your DSD. A lot of things happened in school when I was 12/13 - nicknames from the boys and such like - that I am now furious that I put up with in any way. Which is another reason why I think it would be good for you to raise it. Standing up for yourself is so hard at that age, so you do need parents behind you.

And I think with all of this I'm talking myself into the single-sex school more and more...

[crispandcheesesanwichplease]

chop, no I haven't mentioned it to school - yet. My concerns about the general mood/attitudes of other pupils have accumulated over the past year. She'll come home one day and mention a comment, then a few weeks later she'll mention another . . . . It's only really recently that I've started to have any real worry about the impact on her.

I have to say, to my shame really, that part of me was thinking 'well this must be what secondary schools are like these days', but some of the comments on this thread are making me reconsider that.

I have a DSD who is in her 20's now and I was talking to her a while back about her experiences of unwanted attention/sexism at high school. She developed quite early in terms of physical maturity and with quite a big bust would get a lot of staring (I noticed this myself when out with her). However I was horrified when she told me that at school she used to get groped a lot and cornered in corridors by boys. She said that she just thought that it was part of school life and had to be endured. That is so sad and wrong.

I agree with other pps that in a single sex school, whilst there's still bullying and nastiness, children are less concerned with impressing pupils of the opposite sex (obviously the situation is different for lesbian/gay pupils) and, as such, that's one stress less for them.

Am thinking that I do need to go to school and discuss my concerns now though.....ho hum!

[DustyMaiden]

My DS goes to an all boys school. The boys are taught about respect and concent and generally how to be good members of society. If it is a good school then I don't think being single sex or not matters.

[zazas]

Gardencentregroupie - I was quoting from my discussion with my son (rather than blanketing all girls with this responsibility myself), although he did feel that he found girls were very good at his school in pointing out to the boys when their behaviour was bordering on sexist / unacceptable and that they in turn listened to them. His thoughts were if we don't start to address it somewhere (at this level), when will the change in society come? He was questioning if we separate both sexes until the boys mature, was that the best solution? He then went on to reason that decades before, woman weren't accepted or expected in many places but as they did integrate into these areas it became the 'norm' (at least in his 15yo experience). Obviously for many parents this would perhaps be a step too far to allow their daughter to be the one having to help make this change - hence choosing single sexed schools for this one of many reasons...and no I don't for one moment feel that it is a female responsibility to 'educate' the men BUT I just thought it was interesting his perspective on this. By the way he is the exact opposite of a misogynist and totally believes that it is firstly the boys' responsibility to not be sexist and be a decent person.

crispandcheesesanwichplease yes you are right - my DS thought that schools have a place (and of course parents etc) to educate boys on the unacceptability of sexist behaviour. We are very lucky in that my children's large co-ed school that there is very, very little incidences of this behaviour - nothing like what your poor DD has experienced.

[Dontpanicpyke]

chop

No not being a child but rather very in awe of the opposite sex. Both sexes trying too hard to please the other.

Er sorry to say this but please don't think girls or boys at single sex schools are all into hockey and cricket and healthy pursuits.

[fruitstick]

Better that than 'locker room talk' I suppose.

[StrawberryQuik]

DH and BIL and all of DHs close friends went to a very traditional catholic boys school.

I'd say in general their attitude towards women tends to be 'gentlemanly and a bit old fashioned'

He was a bit awkward at uni till he learnt to talk to girls though!

[choirmumoftwo]

We felt strongly that we didn't want our DD in single sex education having had negative experience of how thoroughly horrible groups of girls can be to each other. We're lucky to have been able to choose a mixed school where boys and girls are taught separately 11-16 then together in 6th form. They have all the advantages of mixing for choir, drama etc but separating for teaching. Perfect choice for us, but each to their own.

[fruitstick]

Thanks for your responses. I agree it keeps them younger for longer. I wonder if it benefits boys and girls equally.

[MaQueen]

Agree with you chop. One of the reasons we wanted our girls at a single sex school was because we wanted them to enjoy their childhood for that little bit longer. Rather than be 12 year olds behaving like 16 year olds.

The last sleepover DD1 (nearly 14) went to involved baking biscuits and building a huge den out of quilts and sleeping bags for them to all sleep under. As yet, there's little interest in 'teenage stuff'. DD and her friends aren't immature, but they do act their actual age rather than faux, sophisticated 17 year olds.

[Tissunnyupnorth]

I have DS in single sex and DD1 (15) in mixed.

Dd2, in a few years will def be going single sex. I have found that the pressure from the boyfriend/girlfriend dynamic, actually has the opposite of what we wanted to achieve.

[chopchopchop]

Made us pretty immature and all the kids friends who went single sex were far more immature than the friends at mixed

Funnily enough, that's also part of the appeal, I'd be really happy for DD to be a child for as long as possible.

[chopchopchop]

Sorry, pressed send too soon, also meant to say that I am really sorry that this is happening and I'd also be interested to know what her take on it is?

[chopchopchop]

crispandcheese - really interested to read your DD's experience. We're looking at secondaries now, and have been leaning towards single sex fore exactly these reasons.

Have you raised any of this with the school, and if so, what has their reaction been?

[Dontpanicpyke]

its likejy he will get routine contact with girls another way yes guessing he will too.

I went single sex in the 80s and so did dh. Made us pretty immature and all the kids friends who went single sex were far more immature than the friends at mixed. Also less confident and more in awe of the opposite sex.

No way would I have chooses that for my kids. Boys or girls.

[fruitstick]

They are both good.

The boys' school is more competitive and traditional I think, whereas the co-ed is a little more nurturing. But it is much bigger.

Also these might just be everyone's assumptions rather than actual fact