AIBU to think Landlords should be forced to have some sort of formal training.

[Peanutbutteryum]

After reading numerous threads on here from people claiming to be landlords but clearly lack any basic understanding of housing laws and their legal requirements to their tenants.

Too many landlords see letting as an investment where they don’t have to do anything rather than a business with rules and laws you have to abide by. In no other industry could you simply rock up with no training what’s so ever, even stacking shelves requires a two day training period.

Being a landlord will most likely be one of the most expensive things you will do, wouldn’t you want to know everything so you can protect yourself.

There are a lot of amazing landlord who know exactly what they are doing and do everything right. Sadly for every great one there will be one who thinks they can attend the property without any notice, that they can kick people out when they like and not keep the property in a liveable condition.

Even a one day training session would make a big difference. They could run through basic housing laws and what is expected of you. When you take on the role of a landlord you are taking on a huge responsibility, I can’t believe you can do it without any information.

I put this idea to a few of my friends who have had a mixed reaction. AIBU to this would help a lot of problems that come up for people renting.

[ReallyTired]

The laws for dealing with bad tenants are fine the way they are.

Really bad landlords don't follow the law. Training scheme or licences would just up everyone's costs.

[LikeDylanInTheMovies]

Thing is you get bad landlords & bad tenants so are tenants going to get training on how to behave too?

No, because landlords are providing a commercial service, tenants aren't so the argument is utterly redundant. Pub landlords need to undertake a training course, submit to checks and apply for a licence, drinkers in said establishment aren't required to demonstrate they won't tread kp nuts into the carpet or piss on the toilet seat.

[MizzEmma]

It might lead to less landlords.

We are letting our house while we're abroad. We don't need to financially, we just prefer to have it lived in.

I suspect if there'd been mandatory training we'd have left it empty.

We do use an agency though and are excellent landlords.

Interestingly our local council has a forum for landlords which offers talks, information evenings and training sessions.

[ReallyTired]

Most tenants are decent human beings. A standard AST is enforceable. It stops being enforceable when the landlord / agency adds silly bits. Most things that landlords do that mumsnetters complain about are clearly wrong.

[SteamTrainsRealAleandOpenFires]

Surely it only work if all tenants understand the basic of behaving like a decent human being too?

Start teaching them in the 1st year (life skills lessons?) of high school.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Gosh, I've never had a contract written in clear English, nor many where all the clauses were enforceable. Nor have I ever seen one. All the ones I've seen have been written in legalistic English, and most included clauses that LL and LA thought could be enforced, but which were illegal.

[Fireflysingstheblues]

I have been both a tenant and a landlord , I agree that landlords should know the law . I also believe that lettings agents should undergo compulsory training before they are allowed to trade . We used a letting agent , because as accidental landlords we wanted to do the best by our tenants . We wanted them to have access to 24 hour repairs , and the knowledge that their concerns would be dealt with quickly. Unfortunately we had a tenant who felt he could do as he pleased with the property, causing thousands of pounds of damage . I had to advise the letting agents of tenancy laws . I believe that tenants should have access to a good standard of living at an affordable price ( we are in the northeast where rental prices are still reasonable ).I hope my property provides that .I am certainly not on a power trip . Everyone deserves quality housing , I hope that I provide that in exchange for the tenant looking after the property and paying their rent on time.

[ReallyTired]

Most landlords use standard agreements and they are enforceable. They are long documents as a lot has to be included. Typically five pages of A4. If either the landlord or tenant signs something without reading it then they are stupid. The CRB can help a tenant understand a contract before they sign it.

Unfortunately there will always be landlords on power trips and tenants who try stuff on. A contract written in clear English is essential for all parties. Most people who break the law/ contract do so diliberately.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

really - of course it isn't an excuse.

But a lot of LL genuinely seem to think they already know these things. And so do tenants.

I have seen people, who have a tenancy agreement, wondering if they couldn't just stay another month, or if they couldn't just ignore that daft stuff about not painting the walls, or whatever.

We have got into a situation where people don't seem to take tenancy agreements seriously - perhaps because of the amount of bullshit that can be written into them, which can't be enforced.

There needs to be some sense that the law does apply here.

[ReallyTired]

Most landlords can read and the contract us blardly clear that they cannot let themselves in without permission. A standard AST outlines many of the legal obligations if the tenant and the landlord. If both parties follow the AST then usually there are no problems.

Being a landlord is profitable. There is zero excuse for not meeting responsibilities.

I would make it an offence to let a property without a proper contract that outlines everyone's responsiblities. No need for a leaflet or mandatory training. A signed contract is proof that someone knows the rules.

[53rdAndBird]

But so many LL are 'bad' because they're ignorant or assume they're already informed

yes yes yes. I have had landlords kick up absolute hell over this stuff. "Of course I can let myself in whenever I want, it's my house!" No. No you really can't.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, but that's piss poor, surely? Tax responsibilities and gas safety?!

I know ignorance isn't a defence. But we don't extend that view to all sorts of other areas of life. We do expect to have to expose people to training in many areas, even if we know not everyone will absorb it.

I've rented both in places where post LL use agencies (as in your area) and in places where that's rare, and I don't think it makes enough of a difference - after all, agencies can get away with pretty basic areas of ignorance in their staff, too.

[ReallyTired]

Most landlords use an agency. The agency's role is to give the landlord the right advice so that they are within the law. If all agencies had to out their staff through training and exams then tenants would get a better deal.

Ignorance is not a defence. Part of running a business is being professional enough to know your responsibilities. The inland revenue sends out a guide to renting when you first register as a landlord already. It mainly covers tax responsibilities, but it does mention gas safety.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

really - a booklet doesn't automatically mean printed?

I agree with you about actively bad LL.

But so many LL are 'bad' because they're ignorant or assume they're already informed, so it would be good if they were directed to this stuff.

At the moment, the situation is a bit like telling drivers they can go out on the road, and there may be rules, but they're pretty obvious - and then expecting them to reverse-engineer the Highway Code by asking questions on MN.

[ReallyTired]

Bad landlords are unlikely to read any booklet. There is plenty of information on how to rent on the Internet. I think an Internet link would be better rather than using the tenant's money to pay printing costs.

A good agency looks after the tenants as well as the landlord. Regulating agencies would improve renting.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I think people are suggesting a booklet for all landlords, not all tenants?

I agree tenants ought to learn about their rights, but as others say, it is wrong that the pressure to abide by the law tends to be responsive (to tenants complaining about LL), when tenants are in the position of lesser power.

I know that there is a strong 'LL can do no wrong' faction on MN and an equally strong 'tenants are all oppressed' faction, though, so arguing for a bit of common sense and more accessible info is probably not going to go over well.

[specialsubject]

FFS.

revenge evictions outlawed.

the 'how to rent' booklet is a legal requirement for all new tenancies.

Threads suggesting that tenants have rights (and should perhaps get informed of them?) are Not Allowed in shiny fluffy MN world. My mistake.

[JellyBelli]

YANBU. Under the current system, tenenats have to risk losing their home to make a complaint about a bad landlord who doesnt even meet minimum legal standards.
It should be the other way around; they should demonstrate they do meet the minimum standards before they are permitted to let the protperty.

[lasttimeround]

It's hard to get a good letting agent. Ours isn't cheap and has a good reputation but they simply cover their asses a lot. So I have to Google to check some requirements are actually required and details of exceptions etc. Annoying as it leaves less cash for the nicer things for the flat which tenant could enjoy.

I don't think info and knowledge is really the problem. There's guides online on all that. It's difficult to fit in managing repairs scgeduling maintenance etc so we need an agent but it's not ideal. Training doesn't solve thrt

[Frustratedmamabear]

At the rate the tax situation is going, a lot of the accidental landlords are going to disappear. We have a house that we wanted to let out but the tax situation is such that we would be paying quite a lot come 2020 to have someone rent it from us. Plus the bastard extra stamp duty on our next purchase.

Highly ironic given that RICS issued a PR this morning about how the rental market is going to be in short supply.

I agree there should be some recognition of basic requirements or all handed off to someone qualified

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Yes, baby, but the difficult isn't finding the info, it's knowing that you need to know it.

If, when you started the process, you knew you had to go download booklet 471 or whatever, you'd start the process sensibly.

In the current situation, a lot of LL either seem to imagine that it's all to do with common sense and therefore they will be fine, or they don't distinguish between reputable sites (like the government's, or Shelter) and forums (like this one, though this one isn't bad) where any random person can ask questions and where the quality of replied depends purely on who chooses to sound authoritative on a given day.

[BabyGanoush]

People asking for booklets makes me

There are some very good websites for landlords (and tenants) out there, with lots of good info.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

YY, dowhat, not disagreeing with that.

[user1474305244]

I was a landlord! Never ever again it nearly finished me off. Tenants are no angels, they treated my house like a slum. I adhered to all legalities but the constant idiocy was horrendous.