To ask your opinions of Alcoholics Anonymous

[Googlesmyfriend]

I've name changed for this.

Dh is trying some AA meetings.

He's struggled to control his alcohol intake for a number of years but for the past three or four he's largely been successful and we're very happy 98% of the time. He's never been a stumbling around drunk abuser of alcohol, isn't violent or aggressive, or emotionally abusive, holds down a good respectable job, parents our ds very well and soberly and is very loving and giving etc. On the face of it, no massive problems and I love him dearly.

But we are both realistic. He sometimes hides alcohol. For many weeks and months it won't happen, he's perfectly sober and there are none of the warning signs I've become accustomed to. Then, usually when we feel at our happiest, his moods will change, he becomes more impatient generally and I know he's doing it again and I'll confront him or I'll discover some hidden booze. He'll usually admit it, full of remorse, guilt and embarrassment. This happens maybe twice a year. He knows and fully admits it's not normal, he isn't in denial, he is trying desperately to do the right thing for himself and for our marriage. He went to a counsellor four years ago and things are so much better as a result. But he was discharged from the programme and he wonders whether he needs ongoing support from a professional.

He's currently trying a month completely without alcohol to see how he feels and whether it's possible. I think he's trying to decide if he needs to stop drinking completely or whether he is capable of drinking small amounts and controlling it. He is fully able to accept that he has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol but does not identify as an 'alcoholic'. He is aware that it's quite a big spectrum with a grey area.

So he's trying the AA meetings. The trouble is, he's surrounded by what he describes as hard core alcoholics - people who have beaten their partners, got into fights, reached for the bottle as soon as they wake, lost jobs, houses etc. He (and i) simply don't see him in the same league - though he is realistic about the dangers of it spiralling. He doesn't want to quit going to the meetings in the absence of other support. However he doesn't identify with anyone else there and feels increasingly isolated and unwilling to share. He is not convinced it is helping. He describes it as very cult like and he's very dubious about its success rate for people 'like him'. But he doesn't know where else to access support. He wants to engage in ongoing support, but doesn't know where to look for it outside of AA.

Our relationship is in a much healthier place now and we talk a lot - neither of us is underestimating the impact these episodes have on our lives when they happen. I don't want to leave him and he's not a bastard. He's got better, not worse, over time. But it still raises its head occasionally.

What are your experiences of AA? What's their success rate like? Do they only really cater for the 'hard core'? Is there anything else available that might suit him better? He won't disengage from AA until there's something else to turn to, but he's really beginning to feel quite low about being in the same box as people who have behaved appallingly due to alcohol.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

I'm like you, Caroline, in that I don't go to meetings. I stopped after about 8 years, although I've been going to lots this year because a friend joined and wanted support.

I know other people who got a lot out of AA but stopped going once they felt they'd truly "got it". You do get AA members who insist you need meetings for the rest of your life. Well, not in my experience.

As long as I carry on being grateful for my sobriety I'll stay sober. Even now, when I've been sober for longer than I drank, I'm grateful.

I'm quite concerned to read from several posters that they were put off AA because no one explained to them what the basic concepts mean.

The powerlessness business, for example. When I was trying to stop drinking someone said to me "You're an intelligent, highly educated woman. And yet all that intelligence has lead you here. Do you want to try something different?" I said yes, and they started explaining how no one gets or stays sober using will power.

I discovered that I could only stop drinking, stop obsessing about drinking, stop worrying about drinking, if I put the whole thing down. Stopped engaging with it. Accepted I was powerless over alcohol. Handed it over. This has nothing to do with religion unless you want it to be. A lot of people hand over to the group.

It's kinda Zen, this handing over business. We need to get out of our own heads. That's why AA recommends prayer and meditation too.

I can see some aspects are weird at first. If you're puzzled or put off, ask, and if their answer doesn't satisfy you, ask someone else. Bear in mind that although you meet inspiring, wise people in AA, we're still just a bunch of ex-drunks.

[AAmemberinthefamily]

Just to add, we are not religious, and the chair at the first meeting dh went to, made a point of saying the god bit doesn't have to be god.

Dh has made one of our pets his higher being thing it our joke now.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Having a sponsor is very important, and in early sobriety we're encouraged to listen to what people say in meetings and choose a sponsor on that basis.

[AAmemberinthefamily]

Also dh has exchanged numbers with a couple of people, but hasn't yet found a his sponsors. From what I gather a sponsor is a vital part of it, someone you can ring and talk to when you need and needone to help guide you.

[AAmemberinthefamily]

Hi google your dh sounds very similar to mine although my dh would still lie about how much he's drunk and denie he had a drink, also I found out he had been drinking from the morning too, whilst at work. You can not tell he's had a drink until he's drunk enough for a normal person to be unconscious. Like your dh the signs of being drunk are the same.

He has also just started going to AA meetings. He also says they are quite cult like and a couple of people come across as evangelical about it. But dh is happy to acknowledge this and continue if it helps him.

He's going to as many different ones as he can to get a feel for them, he says they are all really different in atmosphere. He doesn't go to any in our local city, instead surrounding towns and villages.

I went to Al Lon meeting recently, but think I'm not really for me. Maybe in the future.....


Also I hate to say it but I also lived in denial about how bad he was. Dh will do damage limitation so if he's caught red handed, he holds his hands up then is truthful about how much he'd drunk. But actually I now know he wasn't truthful, when he said he'd only had 3 or 2. Its was more like 7-8 and had started drinking in the morning/afternoon...

[carolineal]

I am a recovering alcoholic (11 years sober) and I went to rehab followed by a lot of AA meetings. What I found was that they gave me the support I needed at the time if I had gone on a big bender or relapsed because nobody judged me like they did in the real world. I would walk into a meeting and people would congratulate me for going back to a meeting after getting pissed. So it felt like a safe place to be and noone was cross with me for failing yet again unlike in real life where I caused upset across the board with my drinking.

However I stopped going to meetings about 9 years ago because I felt as though the AA world wasn't real life at all. I felt what I needed to do was apologise to those that needed apologies, getting back into work and getting own with life. I felt I didn't need to go and sit in a room and drink coffee listening to people go on about what had made them feel shit.

Whilst I don't disagree AA did help me in the beginning, what really helped me beat my addiction was accepting that I couldn't drink at all, I hit rock bottom and my life was pretty much over. I was given a second chance and took it. It did take me 7 years to get to that point though!! I wouldn't rule out going to AA again however if I felt like I wanted to drink - it is nice to know it is there if you need it.

I honestly believe the desire to drink doesn't come from liking the taste or being at a party etc. People with drink problems drink because they are trying to block something out, trying to give themselves confidence, trying to forget etc. People who drink simply for fun can have just the one.

[maggiethemagpie]

I don't have experinence of AA but of another similar 'anonymous' (ie same approach different addiction).

It works for some but didn't for me. I didn't like being told I was 'powerless', it was like a license to continue my addiction. I actually found recovery through acknowledging I did have the power to make different choices, and I do not subscribe to the 'disease model' of addiction. I used a private counseller in the end.

however everyone is different and lots of people have found success with this method so it's worth a try. Plus it doesn't cost anything, so nothing to lose.

[MaximumVolume]

Have a look at //www.addaction.org.uk for alternative services.

[Googlesmyfriend]

I can certainly understand the need for people to fill their time Prawn and I'm so pleased AA worked so well for you (and others).

Dh tries to busy himself too. He does judo every week and now goes cycling too. My only concern now is that I won't get any 'me' time because he's busying himself so much!

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

I'm a very long time sober alcoholic and AA saved my life. I know what people mean about the God business but when I questioned it people cheerfully explained that you can have any higher power you like. I chose trees (it's a long story). Lots of members choose g.o.d. = group of drunks.

I tried everything I could before AA. It was the only thing that worked and I will always be grateful. All the faffing about with drink diaries and counselling I did before AA was a complete waste of time.

This thing about "swapping one addiction for another" is a misunderstanding of how AA works. Alcoholics spend a huge amount of time either drinking or thinking about it. When we first get sober we not only need sobriety, we also need to do something that fills all that time. If we don't it soon fills up with drink again. And then there's friends. Sober alcoholics lose their drinking buddies. They may well have lost their families too. AA becomes a social life. We hang out after meetings, we make friends, and the magic bonus is that the more we bond with other sober alcoholics, the more likely we will stay sober. It's an amazing programme.

Where I live, a fairly large town, there are meetings every day of the week. You can find local meetings on the AA website and, depending on how many you have locally your DH could try them all out. And if he has questions, ask! Where I live there's a special newcomers meeting exactly for this reason.

Lots of people get into AA who still have marriages, jobs etc. Your DH may be lucky.

[HawaiianPartyBunker]

Lots of people find the term 'alcoholic' unhelpful - I'm one of them, I used it here for brevity. I always classed myself as a dependent drinker, or problem drinker - I found the term 'alcoholic' to be enabling, as according to popular opinion, alcoholics are expected to be drunk all the time, and drinking is what they do. So if that's your label, why stop drinking?

It seems pretty clear that AA isn't for your DH. He really shouldn't have to class himself as anything - his very presence at the group tells everyone that he's concerned about his drinking. Labels are unnecessary in that setting, for sure.

[Googlesmyfriend]

I should imagine they do have an OH unit ItsJustNotRight. The question is how good it is and whether dh would trust the personnel.

[Googlesmyfriend]

I'm the same with chocolate Canadian

To be serious though, I know that hiding alcohol is an indicator of alcohol abuse - I'm under no illusions about that and neither is dh. But I don't believe that everybody's issues with alcohol are exactly the same and nor do I think that an automatic label of 'alcoholic' is particularly helpful. Dh's first words to the group were "I don't know what I am".

[CanadianJohn]

I don't want to trivialise this thread, but there seems to be some black/white thinking. Someone wrote "Hiding alcohol is definitely an indicator of alcoholism..."

But - I keep biscuits out of sight. If I left them on the counter, I'd have a biscuit every time I passed by. It's a case of "out of sight, out of mind". Maybe I'm a biscuit addict.

[ItsJustNotRight]

OP I've just seen you post re DHs job. Does his employer offer Occupational Health support? The last company I worked for offered a counselling service as part of OH provision. It was totally confidential in that employees made direct contact with the counselling phone line and they would arrange follow up face to face sessions with a local counsellor. The only feedback the company received was take up stats , nothing to identify individuals or issues. The main reason for mentioning this is it was free and quick to arrange unlike going private or through the NHS.

[Googlesmyfriend]

BillSykes has it spot on. Dh came home last night and said that for the first time he sat there and actually felt a bit judged - like people were being a bit patronising, almost like they knew his story better than he himself does. Dh isn't a naive man, he's very self aware as well as aware of others. He knows and understands denial as he's been there and come through the other side. His denial stage was probably about 5 or 6 years ago. I would think that many at AA may see him as at the start of the downward spiral they've already negotiated and believe he's lying to himself and that him getting worse before he gets better is inevitable. In fact, he has already been in that worse place and is very much better.

[ItsJustNotRight]

I heard an ex footballer (no idea who) talking about alcohol addiction on TV. The fact that stuck in my mind was that the average person tries at least 7 attempts at cures/therapy/detox before they are successful. Hiding alcohol is definitely an indicator of alcoholism, whatever he or you may think. Ask yourself, why would you hide it? What's wrong with just having visible on a shelf or in a cupboard? Is he ashamed of it? doesn't he want you to know he has it? Does he need to have it close to hand wherever he is ? Too far to walk to the kitchen to get a drink ? Doesn't want to admit how much he is drinking? I wish you luck in finding appropriate help. I've seen a few family members self destruct through alcohol and take others with them along the way. There's lots of good alternatives recommended by pp's, I hope one of them suits him but be prepared for more failures before he cracks it.

[HawaiianPartyBunker]

Showmethemoneynow, alcohol advisory services are there for binge drinkers too - we encounter all kinds of alcoholism. Long term support isn't just for the daily morning drinker variety

[BillSykesDog]

Alcoholism can be motivated by emotional or mental issues in different ways though. A physical addiction to alcohol usually is rooted in the same issues, and it continues because of a mixture of physical and emotional factors.

But you can have a drink problem which doesn't have a physical aspect but just the mental one. So you don't drink every day and you don't get withdrawals and it doesn't affect your work.

But you drink secretly and heavily when under stress, or if you have to deal with a situation you can't cope with. People like that often don't find AA helpful.

[Googlesmyfriend]

Thank you all so much - mostly for not judging! The other support mentioned is worth considering I think.

To answer a few questions:

He's an engineer for a large multinational.

I'm not sure we could afford private - I mean, we're comfortable but I don't know how much these things cost for private support so can't assess what we might need to give up to afford it?

I'm as certain as I can be that it's periodic. Unfortunately I've grown up around a similar kind of alcohol abuse (classic, huh?) so have known the signs for a good number of years and I'm very good at spotting them. I know the cunning and manipulation involved and have a sixth sense for it. Dh has tell tale behavioural give aways a bit like in poker when he's hiding alcohol. Little things he says or does, little changes in routine, a different look etc.

Re. 'Cult like' is my DH's perception of - probably mostly tv's portrayal of - cults. He doesn't believe in God and finds reading passages from a book aloud all very uncomfortable. He admits the last book he read was Of Mice and Men at school! He's a naturally chatty and outgoing person, but he gets self conscious reading aloud.

We live in a city, so the meeting he goes to is a city centre one which may explain his perception of the other group members. Some have been sober for 20 years and still go to meetings without fail week in and week out - it's totally a way of life for them. He has been quite tearful about some of the stories he's heard and has said that he does think he gets something out of hearing them - even if only to serve as a reminder of how life can quickly spiral out of control completely. He doesn't judge them, he just doesn't see the similarities with himself.

[Showmethemoneynow]

My DH used to drink heavily. But now he binges maybe once or twice a year - for about 4-5 days. The rest of the time he does not drink at all. He has had some counselling which helped a bit, and has attended the odd AA meeting but he said he felt uncomfortable with the 'religious' aspect of it. Because he doesn't drink all the time - as I said binges with no alcohol at all the rest of the time - I think it's hard to find appropriate treatment. Wish I could help..

[HawaiianPartyBunker]

I work in addiction support - alcohol, specifically - and am a recovering alcoholic. The service I work for does not endorse AA in any way, we don't recommend it to people - there's no 'rivalry', if meetings help addicts stay sober, then it's not for us to judge how they got there. We're just glad they did. We just don't agree with many of the basic tenets of the AA philosophy.

Much of the work we do within my service is based in psychotherapy, and we work closely with the local hospital's hepatology unit - some of us are actually based in that unit, dealing with alcoholics who have been hospitalised through drink related injuries or liver problems.

I agree with PPs that your DH should try to locate an alternative alcohol advisory service where you live. He may well prefer the one on one, talking therapy approach - I know I did. Group settings never worked for me. He can speak to his GP, who can advise him of what's available, in confidence. Most alcohol services allow you to self refer, and offer support for the families of problem drinkers too. Good luck.

[BillSykesDog]

PrivatePike, it's cultlike with the 'handing stuff over to a higher power'. And also with it's insistence that it's the only way of overcoming alcoholism. If people stop attending or try another method they are dismissed as 'dry alcoholics' even when they're not drinking and they're rejected very much in the way ex cult members are. It's the whole 'this is the only way' and rejection of any possible alternatives or that a different way might work for some people.