To think I did the right thing ?

[Icecreamontoast]

We employed someone in what I'd describe as a nanny/carer role. Initially things were going well but after a few weeks I noticed that not everything was being done properly.
Then lateness and short notice cancellations became a regular thing which was annoying. Being ill a lot, one example was I had an appointment, she turned up to do school run but suddenly felt ill so lay down on sofa and went to sleep leaving me to cancel appt and do school run myself.
Phone calls when working for me or turning up at say 1/130pm to work yet not having had lunch so eating in 'my' time when she could have eaten before and was only working 3 hours so shouldn't have needed to. Various things like this over months and months which got very frustrating as I felt I was paying for nothing and ending up doing things myself when someone was there who should have actually been helping.

Anyway, I got wind that she was ttc and then I got irritated at the thought of paying maternity pay for someone who had made my life harder not easier so waited till the next incident happened (and it was quite a big thing) and sacked her.
In passing recently I mentioned this to someone and they said I was totally U to have done this and I should be ashamed ??
If have got rid of her anyway as the situation was getting worse but the thought of paying someone maternity just made me so annoyed when she hadn't really been any help and I decided the next thing would mean she would go

I had spoken to her about each issue so it wasn't out of the blue and she had had the opportunity to actually start working properly but chose not to. I think I did the right thing but my friend thinks my motives are questionable due to the maternity pay issue

[BoomBoomsCousin]

The problem isn't that it's illegal to fire someone because they are TTC, because as you said, you had cause. It's that it's illegal to treat someone less favorably because they are trying to conceive. If you would have given them another chance if they hadn't been trying to conceive you should have given them another chance if they were trying to conceive.

She may have been a crappy employee, but she should be treated the same as any other crappy employee, not given fewer chances or shorter shrift just because she's considering bearing children.

[DoreenLethal]

You need to implement a proper disciplinary procedure and issue warnings not just wait til you find out she is TTC. You have basically admitted on here that is the reason for firing her. If she saw this she could quite easily take you through a tribunal.

[MammouthTask]

The news that she COULD be be ttc (after all are you even sure it's the case?) made you look carefully at the long term situation, which would have included some financial investment from you, and you have decided that it wasn't a good idea.
The issue here is NOT that you have sacked her for ttc. I suspect that, if she had been a fantastic job, you woldn't even have thought about it.
The issue here is the repeated issues you've had with her.

The fact that there has been repeated incidents of things that didn't go well and that it didn't improve is the proof there.

I wouold agree though that if you take someone else on again, yoou need to have clearer booourndaries and be extremely clear about what you will accept or not. You seem to have been accepting a lot of things from her and I suspect that if you had not being as friendly, she might not have taken the mick as much as that.

[Tanith]

I think, then, that was your mistake: you treated her as a friend rather than as an employee there to do a job for you.

Easy to do, but it does confuse the relationship and, in the long run, make issues a lot harder to deal with.

[CoolCarrie]

And never mind what your friend said, she isn't you and maybe has never had issues like this. Stop doubting yourself.

[Icecreamontoast]

I spoke to her after every incident/late cancellation to say that next time please do this or this instead. I kept it as informal and friendly as I could but it did not improve. Then I had to start actually being a bit harsher for example if there was a long social call during hours

[CoolCarrie]

Sounds as if you are well rid of her, she was clearly unsuitable and you have been more than fair by giving her chances to sort herself out. you are not a charity, and you paid her to do a job, which she clearly couldn't be bother to do correctly. Imagine how much worse it would have got if she did get pregnant! You did the right thing for your family.

[Phalenopsisgirl]

My guess is the people saying it was wrong have never been an employer. You didn't fire her because she was ttc, you fired her because she was useless and the ttc bit made you take action before you found yourself in even muddier waters.

[Tanith]

Did you follow any disciplinary procedure at all prior to sacking her?

I agree her performance sounds appalling, but what did you do to try and improve it?

[Icecreamontoast]

At first helpful yes but it started going downhill. I gave feedback about what wasn't working and what I needed doing and yet it did not improve
I gave a lot of chances simply because I had known her a long time but it became obvious work was not a priority for her.

[MoonStar07]

Her TTC should not have impacted your decision the way it did! Why didn't you get rid of her anyway? Why wait til you had this info? She must have been useful in some way as you had her for months. You don't have to do much as an employer for SMP literally sign one form that she would have filled in. very morally wrong and illegal that you would use a potential pregnancy as a factor.

[LeaveMyWingsBehindMe]

I'd have done the same to be honest, I don't give a stuff whether it might be construed as discriminatory or not. If she'd been a great and reliable nanny then it would have been different but it sounds like you were teetering on the brink of sacking her anyway and always giving her another chance to sort herself out.

It would really stick in my craw to think I'd given her so many chances when she wasn't PG only to find that there was no improvement and I was unable to sack her once she was PG, in case she claimed unfair dismissal and used her pregnancy as the reason.

And to add insult to injury having to pay maternity pay on top of expensive temp cover to hold a job open to someone who was shit anyway. Sod that for a game of soldiers.

The knowledge that she might have been TTC just galvanized you to do what you needed to do sooner rather than later.

[Evergreen17]

Ricking it is illegal to dismiss someone because you dont want pay maternity leave.
If you can prove that you fired someone for other reasons other than that then you are off the hook.
But it is illegal to fire someone on the grounds of pregnancy or possible pregnancy.
Surprised you dont know that if you went to tribunal tbh

[Icecreamontoast]

Not after the story incident. Absolutely not. Had that not happened though it would have been the next thing, anything

[Icecreamontoast]

Maternity pay or SMP of still have had to pay something and that would have been work, calls to hmrc etc etc wouldn't it and just more paperwork which we didn't need so I felt the fact she wasn't actually helping yet would end up increasing out workload just annoyed the hell out of me. It's petty and probably morally questionable having ttc as anything to do with terminating employment but she handed it to me on a plate really and being stressed and overworked anyway I took the chance to get rid, not have to do any more work and pay maternity pay of any description

[Ditsy4]

This is why people should pay more and get a trained nanny.

Would you have continued if you didn't know she was ttc?

[MsJamieFraser]

Under 2 years service you can dismiss anyone and not give a reason, after that time you have to give a reason, her poor performance was the biggest factor in your dismissing of her.

However what I don't get is that you say you would have to pay her maternity pay, would you, I'd have thought due to her hours she would only receive SMP

[Icecreamontoast]

I'd have sacked her regardless but if that incident hadn't happened I think I'd have found any other misdemeanour a good reason I just felt that I would begrudge the extra work paying maternity pay would be and having to hand over money to someone who hadn't done the job properly a way a massive pain and that they she didn't deserve it. I'm sure morally as an employer that's wrong but it was a knee jerk reaction/feeling
I employed her to help us and it didn't help it just caused more hassle and I felt really very much in the way of why should she benefit

[phillipp]

It's not illegal. FFS. If it were illegal to fire every woman who was TTC despite poor performance there would be a real problem.

Ttc or being pregnant should not form any part of the decision. That's the bit that could be illegal.

Op clearly said it did.

[Rockfuckingbottom]

It's not illegal. FFS. If it were illegal to fire every woman who was TTC despite poor performance there would be a real problem.

Morally you might feel uncomfortable but you dismissed here due to poor performance. That's not U.

(I took my employer to tribunal as I was dismissed for being pregnant. They lost).

[Evergreen17]

What blankie said

[Evergreen17]

Mmmhh if you had sacked her because of her poor performance only, even when pregnant you would have been ok in the eyes of the law.
But getting rid of her because she was TTC is illegal which is what you have done, lets not kid ourselves you had plenty of chances before and you didnt.
I can see why you have done it but just leave with it, dont expect others to justify your illegal action

[Blankiefan]

Yabu

Her performance and her potential pregnancy should be separate - morally/legally. If it was only her performance that made you sack get then fine but you've said the last straw was the thought of paying her mat pay.

And for info, you claim mat pay back for employees so you wouldn't have been paying it anyway.

[phillipp]

I think you have muddied the waters by making TTC the push you needed to get rid of her.

She deserves to lose her job. No doubt about that, but the TTC shouldn't have formed part of the decision.

[Icecreamontoast]

Inappropriate stories. Apparently just "messing about" with dc writing short stories but the content unacceptable for their ages (contained arson, making fun of disabilities, too much wee/poo talk and reference to drugs)