To think NHS time wasters should be billed and have to pay?

[YellowSunny]

The ones that call for an ambulance when it isn't needed (to take them home when they're drunk) should be billed for it? So they pay the £500 (whatever it costs) and people in prison should have to pay for their dental care (DD got a procedure done and had to tick she was in full time education and that's why she got it free, but there was one for people in prison!!! I never knew this) so when they're released they should be billed? Surely it would make a lot of sense. Yes, it may cause more work, but surely it should save the NHS some money?

Why do you pay £1,200 a year for a levels?!

Ok some have said about missing appointments.

Prison health care of all types is shockingly bad. Any dental treatment is absolutely necessary not cosmetic and involves long waits.

They are entitled to NHS treatment the same as any member of the public who isn't in work.

The punishment is deprivation of liberty, not being denied essential health care FFS (though that is what often happens).

And 'clearing ditches'?. The burden on the prison service doing this and providing adequate security is simply unachievable.

There are prisoners who miss essential medical appts that can only be provided outside prison (chemotherapy for instance) because there aren't enough staff to provide escorts and the day to day running and security of the prison has to come first.

Denying free dental care to people in prison is about as petty as anything I can think of.

You said it so much better than me thunder

Drive on then OP - commit a crime and get free dental treatment and 'education' since it seems so appealing to you.

The problem is where do you draw the line? Who decides what is an appropriate use and what isn't?

With regards to missed appointments I don't think fining would help, more likely put people off seeking appointments in the first place. Something needs to be done but I don't think fines are the answer. Ds has been to peads outpatients twice in the last 2 weeks the first week the sign said 40 people had missed appointments, the next week 48. So that's 88 children who have potentially missed important care - fining the parents won't stop that though IMO.

Here we go with the 'oh so poor people in prison'... Fucking hell, we all have a choice to go there. They broke the law!!! Honestly, if someone murdered your child, you'd be really chuffed that they're nice and comfortable with their nice teeth and learning? If you say yes, I can't honestly believe you.

I used to be a GP receptionist and the worst time wasters weren't the no shows but the hypochondriacs

I agree this is complex, but think you raise an important point. My exMIL, a chronic and deeply unpleasant attention-seeker, regularly demanded GP home visits for absolutely nothing; apparently "nice Doctor X" always came out in the 50's and she didn't see why they shouldn't now. Remarks that the GP could have seen 5 others in the time she'd taken were answered with either a strop or a whining "well, I don't ask for much ..."

Though perfectly able to get to the surgery, she simply didn't feel like it - but you should have seen the state she worked herself into when they finally refused

You are - hardly surprisingly - taking a very simplistic view on things OP. Things in the real world aren't always black and white.

How exactly are people in prison time wasters? They attend their appointments don't they?

Time wasters are those who make an appointment and don't bother turning up.

Maybe you should pick a new new name change, you're not living up to your current one.

I agree certain sectors of society should et free dentistry - in fact, I'd quite like free dentistry for all - but I don't think prisoners should get it free and never pay it back. Agreed, they need healthcare when inside anyway, but paying back a small amount would help the NHS and if done properly (as in, a small % once they are earning a certain amount) wouldn't hurt financially. But of course prisoners, no matter their crimes, should have medical treatment. Under the NHS everyone is entitled to free healthcare to an extent, with different levels for teeth, eyes and prescriptions. Prisoners are humans despite their crimes so should of course recieve the same treatment.

I think missing appointments without telling beforehand should be charged - but then if you miss an appointment without good reason you're not seen for a while anyway. (Remembers one memorable occassion when recieved lettr at 8.30 through post, dated 4 days earlier, giving me an appointment for that day, at 9.00. Hospital 20 mins away with good traffic and no transport arranged. Had to miss it, rang the hospital and explained - and complained about timing of letter - and just about got an appointment for a month later. And that was a legitemate excuse).

I would like there to be more of a detterant of time wasting, but I wonder how that could affect people. Some people aren't very confident, and may be too scared to ring an ambulance for anything - like the elderly who ring the police for a bit of advice on 101 and it transpires the robber is in the house, and when asked why they didnt ring 999 say they didnt want to waste their time. Charging people could mean less people accessing help, so while I'd like there to be a detterant I wouldn't want it at the risk of people's health and wellbeing. The only thing I think is feasible is charging for missed appointments - but even that could backfire, as you could have someone in a D.V relationship whose partner stopped her going to her appt. By punishing her, we would be making her life harder, and we never know what goes on behind closed doors.I think the best situation is just to continue delaying appointments if people miss theirs.

Yabu. They'd need to employ staff to administer it for a start.

Clutching figures out of thin air (waiting for laundry cycle to finish) but I'd guess a full time admin / accounts staff member plus possibly a part timer per hospital. That's £25k -ish that has to be recouped to break even. At what point would legal fees kick in, that's another dent.

And how would you go about fining people with MH issues, of whom there would be thousands. I can't imagine what a mess it would be. My colleagues in sales ledger have enough fun and games chasing payment from legitimate companies. Good luck to anyone chasing individuals.

So again - get yourself a custodial sentence if you think prison life is such a privilege.

OP Educating prisoners doesn't anger me at all. If we don't want people reoffending, we need to help them get jobs so they don't turn to crime repeatedly. I'm not saying that their education is more important than other people's but I'd prefer prisoners studying in prison and getting jobs when they get out.

With regards to the dental care - it's very pricey to get dental care but it's not in anyone's interest to force people to remain in physical pain. Non-resident parents on benefits like JSA only pay £5 a week. A £250 dental bill would take a year to pay at that rate. I'd rather the child got the extra fiver a week tbh.

There are definitely time wasters and I think people should be charged for missed appointments. I've had to take my kids to A&E a handful of times because the minor injuries unit shuts at 6pm. I don't know if costs at a minor injuries unit are less but the NHS may have saved money if my children were x-rayed there rather than at A&E.

It isn't better than my life now, no. However, it's damn better than it should be.

Jeez, also;ut;ey get yourself put in prison and avail yourself of the 5* healthcare and AI accommodation.

Not everyone in prison is a murderer, rapist or paedophile, OP.
Lots of people are in prison because their life chances have not been good. Many have mental health issues and will be extremely vulnerable (as well as possibly unemployable) on release.
Denying them NHS care sound pretty inhuman to me.

Yellow I'm not too sure how many people have a real choice tbh - I doubt anyone sets out to go to prison, and growing up in poverty or being abused of course impacts adults lives. Of course, people are in prison for a reason but denying them healthcare wouldn't solve a single thing. As for education, well we fortunately no longer have the death penalty. Punishing prisoners, having them reoffending and keep imprisoning them costs far more than providing education and trying to rehabilitate them. So actually if we're talking about waste it's probably best to provide education and healthcare. Also it's human kindness. Toothache, other illnesses etc, hurt like bastards and I'm sorry I couldn't stand there and watch them suffer, no matter what they had done.

Fortunately? Sure.

Prisoners should not be denied access to medical care. Access to medical care should be a basic human right

Yes OP, I would be happy that we treat people in prison with basic human rights. I think it's a good way to judge a society actually - that they treat their prisoners with basic human rights. I would not holiday in a country that uses the death penalty for instance.

And there are very few child murderers in the UK prison population. The majority are there for much lesser offences and an overwhelming proportion have MH problems, neurodevelopmental disorders and/or have experienced neglect and abuse in childhood.

I've worked in several prisons. It's not a holiday camp. They are almost always soul -destroying places full of fear and violence that are warehousing a damaged population that people like you don't give a fuck about.

And I don't expect you to care, that's okay. Most people don't. But suggesting they shouldn't have necessary health care goes beyond not caring and wanting to be vengeful and that's not okay.

How many prisons have you been in OP?

Good post Comejointhemurder

I can't help suspecting that the administrative costs of chasing ex prisoners for payment would be higher than the amount of money clawed back.

And what grounds would you be using to withdraw treatment? It's not as though having a job is a prerequisite of NHS treatment, and many prisoners will have paid taxes.

If the idea is that no medical treatment is part of the sentence, that seems pretty brutal - is it supposed to apply to all prisoners?