AIBU Mr Cameron has some explaining to do

[iniquity]

He won the last election because he said labour couldn't be trusted with the economy.
He promised us a referendum.
Now he's telling us we will be plunged into an economical black hole if we brexit, which there is a 50 percent chance now.
Labour said all along that they wouldn't have a referendum as it would be too damaging for the economy. At least they were honest from the start.

[scaryteacher]

I don't trust the EU to keep their side of the deal; and I think the renegotiation was scuppered from the off when he said he wanted to remain. Had he said to the EU that he would campaign for out and done so, I would have had far more admiration for him.

This is panicky essay crisis governing. He should have learned from the Scottish referendum.

[lljkk]

In February, I thought Cameron's renegotiation terms were weak... but as the debates have deepened about why Brexit, I like Cameron's deal more and more. He really has renegotiated a load of things to rebuff those who want to Leave.

The only reason people say different is because they don't believe Camerons' deal will stand up. Either then don't trust EU to keep EU side of deal, or they dont' trust Cameron to implement it. I find myself liking Cameron* more as a leader for negotiating what has been an extremely difficult path last 6 yrs.

*would never vote Tory in my life, but as Tory bastards go, Cameron is alright.

[iisme]

I think he will be remembered as a poor leader, mainly on the basis of the two referendums. He should never have called this one, it was a cynical attempt to deal with internal party politics and get rid of Boris and UKIP which has gone pretty wrong, even if we do remain, and will cause lasting bad feeling towards the UK in Europe and has fermented a terrible atmosphere in British politics. . He managed not to loose Scotland in the last referendum but it gave a huge push to Scotland in the inexorable direction of independence. He couldn't have prevented that referendum, but it was his governance and the way the 'no' campaign was run that turned it into such a close run thing and did permanent damage to the union.

[Griphook]

Yes he does have lot to answer for, he won the election on the back of offering a referendum, he was short sighted and was only interested in winning the election at any cost to to the county. His promise of a referendum was acting in his own self interest.

[Musicinthe00ssucks]

He also said he would throw his full support behind the Leave campaign if he couldn't negotiate better terms for the UK in the EU. He didn't and he hasn't. He is a professional liar.

[Capricorn76]

I'm part of the British public and I did not call for a referendum. Nor did any of my friends or colleagues. The Tories will not be forgiven for causing these divisions, potentially ruining our economy and splitting the UK.

[FlaviaAnsell]

Surely in that case we need him to stay on for stability in the short term, but for there to be a leadership contest for someone who is positive about and has plans and vision for the future outside the EU.

That will happen regardless of the referendum result. He's already said he doesn't intend to lead the party into the next election, so there'll be a leadership election in a couple of years in any case. A Leave result might bring it forward a bit, that's all.

The Conservative party has gone through major splits before, both times over free trade, which to some extent is the issue now. It reformed itself and survived, after a period in opposition. The differences are that the politicians involved then, both times, were of much greater stature than the current lot, and there was a much more credible and stronger Opposition.

[NewLife4Me]

OP, I find it all a bit fishy tbh.
I'm surprised why so many seemingly intelligent people believe this shit anyway.
They will do what they want to regardless of how people vote.
We aren't going to have the final say in something as important as this
It's a pantomime ffs.

[Timeforabiscuit]

I suspect after brexit we'll start to get some decent coverage on the election fraud investigations - Farages smug face will be everywhere if the tory party starts to implode as a result.

[GreenishMe]

I'll be very disappointed if we stay in.....but I think we will.

DC has 'scared' enough people in to complying.

we'll have to wash our own cars ffs

[wasonthelist]

I think my point is 1. Either he is exaggerating the risk or 2. He put his desire to be elected above the best interest of the country.

I think it's both, but he's not alone in that :)

[Basicbrown]

He put his desire to be elected above the best interest of the country.

Which I'm sure is true of a large number of politicians.

The 'black hole' stuff is interesting because it will be his job to ensure it doesn't happen. Maybe he thinks if he makes out it will be awful and it isn't the tories will get credit for their amazing economic policy.

[milliemolliemou]

Cameron presumably promised the referendum because of internal Conservative politics - it quietened down the party Eurosceptics and the large number of voters who also appeared to be Eurosceptic. And I'm with wasonthelist - presumably he bet the referendum would satisfy Eurosceptics while still leaving us IN. And he didn't promise it saying he believed in OUT which is why he's been putting the case for staying IN. Whichever way it goes, it's not going to do much for the Tory party.

Labour have been riven as well. Gaitskell opposed it from the start and in the last half century many MPs including Corbyn were Eurosceptic. - as late as 1983 the broader Labour polity voted 2-1 against further involvement. They didn't offer a referendum in their manifesto IMO because they could see the Tories would do it anyway and pay the price - despite the fact many Labour supporters would have gone for it.

[nippiesweetie]

Cameron never thought he would have to have this referendum. He thought he would be in coalition again and he could use the Lib Dems as an excuse not to deliver.

As it happens his overall majority is looking pretty shaky in light of accusations of electoral fraud in several marginal seats. If seven or eight Tory MPs are excluded for overspending his majority is shot.
This might, note might, not even be a legitimate government.

[iniquity]

I think my point is 1. Either he is exaggerating the risk or 2. He put his desire to be elected above the best interest of the country.

[iniquity]

Was on the list my point is , a 50 percent risk is massive!

[Timeforabiscuit]

Part of me thinks if you don't really want an answer, then dont ask the question!

Cameron does have alot to answer for imo, the offer of a referendum was to calm the back benchers and maybe winkle a better deal from Europe - i dont think its achieved either and has antagonised the split even further.

Not to mention ive have upteen conversations about europe which have bored me to tears on occassion, polling day has shut our school, so Cameron has pissed me off too.

[branofthemist]

Tories won the last election because labour were not a viable choice. Their campaign was a joke.

Wether David Cameron wants to stay or not doesn't matter. We live in a democracy, giving the vote to the people was the right choice.

Far better than ED millibands 'I think we should say so I don't want to know what everyone else thinks' view of it all.

[rumblingDMexploitingbstds]

I think it was, particularly to those voters who were wandering to the UKIP camp from the Conservative and Labour ranks which was a big source of worry to both parties.

[Basicbrown]

He won the last election because he did Project Fear with the idea of the SNP allied with Labour.

Nothing at all to do with the fact that labour's manifesto/ campaign was unclear on basic stuff and shit. Oh and round here in apparently a key marginal they put up some woman who lived outside the constituency who didn't even bother to come and meet people.

[wasonthelist]

I can see why he wanted to offer this - it was very popular with the electorate

Was it? - Serious question.

[wasonthelist]

Now he's telling us we will be plunged into an economical black hole if we brexit

He's been pretty consistent about that.

which there is a 50 percent chance now.

er .... wasn't there always a 50/50 chance?

[rumblingDMexploitingbstds]

I can see why he wanted to offer this - it was very popular with the electorate - and to put a final stop to the infighting, but I really wish he hadn't and it's one of a number of serious tactical errors. I am voting out, as I'm concerned that the remain vote I think is probably coming is going to give the EU a mandate with us that they've never really had before and we won't have the status quo we'll have EU plus. If we vote remain then I can see in a few months a lot of people who voted remain may be very angry as more facts emerge. I would rather have stayed in as we are with the EU a bit careful in case we get too fed up and walk.

If we do end up coming out then having made very clear statements that DC thinks out is the wrong answer and it will do such damage, then I don't see how he feels he can stay as leader as he is currently saying he will. Surely in that case we need him to stay on for stability in the short term, but for there to be a leadership contest for someone who is positive about and has plans and vision for the future outside the EU. Not someone giving us disappointed looks and saying we've made a bad decision, he doesn't agree but he'll try and muddle us through.

[wasonthelist]

Maybe just me then who finds it all a bit fishy.

What do you mean by that?

It's politics.

[GreenishMe]

Now he's telling us we will be plunged into an economical black hole if we brexit, which there is a 50 percent chance now.


He should get himself a sandwich board with 'The End is Nigh!' scrawled across it.