that teaching namewriting in nursery is just wrong

[BrexitentialCrisis]

It just gets on my tits.

3 year old is being asked to trace his name with a board pen onto a laminated template and sound out the letters. Every day. He hates it and it apparently takes him many minutes to do it, but he has to before he is allowed to go and play. His grip is all over the place and he says it hurts him. But his name is realllly long and the letters don't look like they sound. I'm a teacher and I really disagree with the way it's being done but don't want to sound like an arse if I flag it up. I've overheard the teacher talking about how ofsted recommended they do it so that kids are ready to write in reception. I don't want my son to learn about writing this way.
Whatever happened to painting with water on patios, threading, drawing in shaving foam and all those other fun pre-writing techniques? It's all just so lame. I just need to man up and complain don't I?

[hazeyjane]

it’s important to be aware that you are encouraging the correct age-appropriate grip. Getting a 3 year old to use a tripod grip when their muscles aren’t developed enough will only result in them using an awkward version of the grip and these incorrect habits are hard to correct over time.

This is from www.occupationaltherapychildren.com.au/blog/parents-pencil-grasp-gripping-guide/ an occupational therapy blog about pencil grip and mark making

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Anthony Bryce Clegg is your friend OP!

Anthony Bryce-Clegg is everybody's friend.

I think wakeup has spectacularly missed the point of the thread.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

I hate this "can't do won't do" attitude. If you tell his nursery to stop him writing, he'll use that for other things too. Don't work against the nursery, work with them.

But it's not a can't do/won't do attitude. The child has only just turned 3 and is having to have his hand forced into a position which is painful for him in order to write his name. It's the equivalent of trying to get your 10 month old to ride a bike by sitting them on it and moving the pedals for them.

I honestly can't see what this is teaching him other than to hate writing.

[grumpalumpgrumped]

I actually think Ofsted would have an issue with child clearly not ready being given this to do. (am an early years manager). So many better ways to encourage writing skills. School readiness (I hate that term) is about confidence, self help, behavior.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

I'm not sure I know of any reception teachers that would be happy with this in their own class, let alone the nursery that feeds into them. I don't think this is about school readiness and standards being pushed down from above.

I've just noticed I got Alistair Bryce-Clegg's name wrong.

[mammamic]

<a class="break-all" href="//www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&text=Roger%20Priddy&search-alias=books-uk&field-author=Roger%20Priddy&sort=relevancerank&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Roger Priddy Wipe Clean Books

Roger Priddy - check out Amazon. Cannot recommend highly enough.

These books are amazing. We started with the Wipe Clean series - pen control, letters and numbers and then moved on to the other books. DD loved them. Also used his First Hundred words etc.

If you have a Costco card - they usually have them.

Regarding the nursery situation - I would talk with the teacher and the head. The last thing anyone wants is introduction to writing being a negative experience and this seems just that. Tell them you are working with child at home and for them to ease off and take the stress out of it. Suggest finger tracing for now or a stick in sand or something.

[2catsnowaiting]

Recognising own name at nursery, yes. Ours were supposed to find their name on a board and stick it up to "register" themselves when they were in. Copywriting it, definitely not something they should be forced to do. If they want to write and have the pencil control great, if not they shouldn't.

They did learn their letters at nursery, but it was done in fun ways eg as a group let's think of things that start with a and stick pictures of them onto a board.

My summer born 5 year old finds writing hard work, and his Reception teacher told me, rather than making him write lots at home to practice, do other activities that improve fine motor skills e.g. hama beads, threading, picking up small items with tweezers, sorting small objects into colours etc. All things it was much easier to make into a game than "let's copy a load of letters again and again".

[Excusemeforpostinghere]

My dd goes to a lovely montessori nursery and they trace their names. But it's not forced.

[LittleBearPad]

It sounds as though nursery are being absurd. Especially if he's only just turned three. Ask the teacher what she hopes to achieve. Ask for a full explanation that ties to the eyfs. Then complain to her and the 'headteacher'.

[TheNewStatesman]

"First, do no harm."

I have no problem with schools gently doing some academics at nursery stage, but ONLY if they actually know what they are bloody doing.

I get very cross when I hear of nursery school staff etc. "introducing literacy" when actually all they are doing is buggering things up and creating confusion in the kids.

First point. They shouldn't be sticking whiteboard pens into these kids' hands to write. If they want to encourage writing readiness then fine--but give them proper small pencils and pens, and paper, and show them how to sit comfortably at a little table. (And they can do this by drawing.) Otherwise all you are doing is teaching crap habits. Whiteboard pens are too fat to fit comfortably into most little children's tiny hands, and they encourage wrong gripping habits which real teachers will later on have to spend time and energy correcting.

Secondly, "teaching kids how to write their names" is just about the silliest activity you can possibly do if you are trying to introduce phonics. English names are notorious for odd spellings based on higher-level rules which tiny children are not ready to cope with. So unless a kid's name is Jen or Sam, all this is going to do is cause confusion. Teaching a kid to write "Sophie" and then getting her to point at it and say "Suh! Oh! Puh! Huh! Ih! Eh!" is not teaching her to read--it will only make her really confused and convince her that relationships between letters and sounds are arbitrary. This will slow down the teaching of proper reading.

Nowadays, it is usually advised to teach only lower case letters until kids are blending properly with these (because when kids are introduced to upper case ones at the same time, it encourages mixing up and confusion of upper/lower case, which teachers then have to spend yet more time sorting out). So they shouldn't be introducing upper case right now either, yet if it's "names" then I guess they are.

It's also recommended that children learn the smooth precursive style for each letter, not ball-and-stick, so that teachers don't have to waste time teaching one way and then unteaching it and teaching another way. Is this nursery teaching the kids proper smooth precursive style for each letter? (Genuine question. Perhaps they are, perhaps they are not).

Making the kids do this before they can go out and play does not sound right either. These kids are really young and the nursery should not be inviting resistance and negative attitudes to learning in this way.

If they want to do some school readiness stuff, they should do some reading up on "phonics awareness" stuff and do some enjoyable games and activities that will help children practice splitting words up into sounds. If they don't want to do this kind of genuinely helpful activity, then they really shouldn't be doing anything at all. It is fine not to do any literacy at all at nursery age!

[teacherlikesapples]

wakeup- Did you miss the part where the child was being forced to hold a pencil 'correctly', which was actually causing him pain? He was unable to do this on his own (due to it being a developmentally inappropriate expectation) That is like forcing a baby to walk before he can even hold his head up.
"Sorry baby, I know your body isn't ready for the upright position, but I won't be having this 'can't do won't do attitude'. It'll lead to bad habits." How ridiculous.

As already discussed in detail in this thread, there are plenty of ways in which the OPs son can learn to write, and actually enjoy the process so he will want to do more & more of it. The benefit of doing it at his own pace, is that it can be a social learning experience that involves many other parts of the curriculum at the same time.

No one is suggesting he avoid literacy. No one is promoting illiteracy. Quite the opposite. The rational & qualified people in this thread are saying please teach him about literacy, but do it appropriately.

[CallieG]

You are not unreasonable. Children learn at different rate & all they are teaching his is to have a negative view of learning & school. This is NOT a positive experience for him. Littlies grasp things in their fists , very few have the dexterity & fine motor skills needed for writing, that does not usually come until they are between 4 & 5 & for some; even older, You do need to speak up , If you will not advocate for your child then who will? Seriously? It's a kindy not a School, there is no requirement for that sort of a rigid hard fast rule, If they will not back off on forcing the issue then I would change Day Care.

[VicsterB]

At our nursery this is playfully encouraged, but never forced. The parents sign the children in on paper & the children can write their name on a laminate play 'register' or they can put their photo on the door next to their name, or they can choose to do neither.
I think it's healthy to encourage writing if the child is interested & enjoys trying to write. Once it's not a positive experience it's not setting the child up for loving learning in the future.
My 3 1/2 yr old sometimes likes to write his name & at other times he's not interested. Sometimes he has been through phases of not feeling confident with writing some letters. He has shown an interest, so we have played games to practice his least favourite letter. S the snake is currently all over our blackboard, fun times!
One boy at nursery is just 3 & can write the whole alphabet, his parents helped him to learn as he enjoys it.

I would ask that they offer an alternative task as the current approach is clearly not building confidence for your child.

[workslikeadog]

Madamdeathstare might not be a professional but she certainly knows what she is talking about.

Getting children ready to learn for reception is what's needed not putting them off learning by overly forceful regimented approaches to achieve a set goal.

Let us not forget that we are all individuals and have our own strengths and weaknesses throughout life. And as a child skills like writing your name - there is a wide gap between the earliest starters and latest. My son who is now 11 is super bright and passed the 11 plus easily. He had no interest in picking up a pen or pencil at 5 let alone 3. His fine motor skills were developed by building Lego - that also helped his 3 d shapes snd spatial skills. He is a fab mathematician. He was in the bottom set for handwriting until year 2. Then there was a massive turnaround and his writing skills developed and he now has the most beautiful neat writing.

Oh and if the little boy concerned would one day like to apply for job in investment banking- I do believe they ask for touch typing in their graduates. Not handwriting. The obsession with it is ridiculous.

[eyebrowsonfleek]

I completely agree with your OP. They are using a very dull and unimaginative way to fulfill OFSTED expectations. Paper and pens should be available for children to use in nurseries and pre-schools but making reluctant writers write is pointless.
(Absolutely fine to encourage activities that build up writing muscles. )
The government have been making the standards that children have to attain harder for everyone. I'm not surprised that they are getting 3 year olds to write. It's a matter of time until 2 year olds are asked to write.

[AnnPerkins]

YANBU at all.

The school at which I was a parent governor was very unhappy with the local preschool trying to teach this stuff. They were doing it wrong and doing more harm than good. Also with phonics, they were having to unteach the children as they arrived in Reception and start again.

DS would rarely sit down long enough to write or draw at preschool. The 'drawings' they used to send home were hilarious - a blank sheet of paper with one line flicked across the page, with his name written on the back by the staff. They looked like a teacher had thrust the paper and pencil in his path while he was on his way from one activity to another.

Now, in Y2, he's really into cursive writing. He has a pad on the kitchen table where he's been carefully scribing his various observations this week. Things like 'We have got trout for dinner' and 'My daddy is bendy'. Obviously his topic work on Samuel Pepys has been paying off too.

So what are you going to do OP? I wouldn't allow my DS to go through that every day, of all things I want him to enjoy learning and look forward to going to school for as long as possible. It would be a crying shame for him to be put off before he's even started.

[Tusty]

In my opinion nursery and preschool should still be child led but with staff providing the opportunity for the kids to have time to sit down and learn specific things like numbers, letters, mark making and drawing alongside play.

My son's got 9 letters in his name. While at nursery he loved writing pages and pages of zigzags, he wasn't interested in writing his name. By the time he left and went to school he could do 3 letters. By a few weeks in he could do his full name. At nursery they provided the environment for them to learn specifics and sit down time, but not once was it forced, and at school it is still quite relaxed ensuring they're in the right state of mind to do it alongside the rest of the class.

I'd not have been happy if either of our nurseries had been like that and forcing them. It'll just push them against it, and cause problems for the teachers trying to enthuse them at school (but imo kids are expected to learn too much by the time they leave nursery compared with what they were when we were kids - where I recognised my name and could count but that was it by the time I went to school. My son's similar although is finding it harder to remember things than I did - I'm assuming he's inherited my OH's brain rather than my more academic one!)

I'd talk to the nursery and let them know your concerns. If they won't adapt to the kids' needs, then I'd be thinking about moving nurseries.

[JustanotherKaren]

So you and everyone in your family could read and write in the Nursery, MeMySonAndI...? Yet you're still mistaking the word "lose" for "loose"....

[joannee78]

I'm also a teacher- a Nursery teacher at that but am currently on maternity leave. I totally disagree with learning to write names in nursery other than 'having a try' on their paintings and pictures so we know who they belong to. Doesn't matter if the child does just a scribble- just good to have a go! It's often the local councils pushing schools to improve results so they look better. It's not really developmentally appropriate. All they need in nursery is Mark making such as painting, pencils, lines in the sand with sticks etc. It should be fun and through choice of the child- no pressure! I'd complain if I were you.

[Ifeelsuchafool]

Better than my daughter being told that she wasn't allowed to write her name on her picture on her first day at nursery. And before I get judged, she wasn't pushed. Natural curiosity had caused her to ask how I knew which Christmas presents were hers and which were her baby brother's precipitated a frenzy of learning to write her name and labelling her belongings when she was 2!

[Onsera3]

It's so unnecessary. The nursery DS was at when he turned 3 started sending home writing homework. DH and I said he wouldn't be doing it. We are both teachers of older children.

Now he is at a school nursery and they are doing it there and it stresses him out. He is very capable and does fiddly big boy Lego with tiny pieces so I think his fine motor skills are fine.

As far as I'm aware there is no benefit to starting early with this formal learning. Looking at international comparisons etc When I told overseas family, who are experienced post grad qualified Early Years experts, they laughed out loud about the writing.

It's on my list of reasons I want to leave the UK. They should be bloody playing instead.

[jugotmail]

I work in early years and would not force a child to complete handwriting before they can play outside. My boy is in reception and they still use 'fun' writing methods like mud and soap. Research has shown that children - boys especially - need to develop muscles in the shoulders and arms before hand and finger strength follows and improves with fine motor skills. turning writing into work at this age is completely counter productive.

That said have a word with the staff as your son could be exaggerating a little - mine often says he "just had to work alllllll day and not played" even when I have been past and seen him joyfully charging around the playground!

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

My DC2 had no interest in learning toread or write before he started school at nearly 7.

As we are in Germany nobody tried to make him.

This is his hand writing at 8, when he'd been at school a year. I think it compares ok with an average English child who's been at school 4 years by that age - and he is average among the boys handwriting wise, some of the girls and one or two boys have properly beautiful hand writing after a year.
.
Children who want to read and write at 4 seem to teach themselves at home anyway - my DC1 and 3 did. Those who learn at 7 don't seem to be at a disadvantage.

[hazeyjane]

The thing is there is no 'government requirement' to do writing, especially in the way the op describes.

[Londonmamabychance]

Agree, that's completely wrong for the nursery to do that. All studies show that starting to teach kids writing and other such skills early on has no impact on how well they do later on, and often has the opposite effect of making them reluctant and give them negative impressions. Completely agree also with re teacher who said that as a teacher (have myself been a teacher) it's only annoying now when kids start in school with very different and often wrong ideas about writing they've been taught in nursery. Nursery should be a time to play and be kids. However, you may face the problem that if that's the philosophy of your nursery, you're unlikely to change their opinion on it. If it's the only random 'teaching' thing they do, then you may have luck complaining diplomatically, but if it's part of their overall approach, it may be difficult. I purposefully picked a nursery that does not have that approach, but of course if you're generally happy with the nursery and it's just that one thing that bothers you, maybe staying very diplomatic about it is best. If they do load of stuff you disagree with Id consider finding another nursery.