To detest our marriage counsellor?

[Discobabe]

Apparently when I say my husband should/could have put our relationship first in certain situations, it's authoritative. Where did I learn those words? No one wants to be bossed around, if they are they might want to know why they should xyz. Am I seriously meant to spell out to my husband why our relationship should (oops, there I go again) come first?

If I disagree with anything she says we sit in long, stony silences until I speak again. I feel like I have words put in my mouth or I have to agree or i'll face the silence......We actually sat for about 5 mins in complete silence.

I've been sent away to think about my daddy issues, on a non cognitive level I have them because he worked away a lot when I was little and I must have missed him and felt neglected by him (hence why I react so strongly when I feel 'neglected' by my husband)....I was never close to my dad when I was little and didn't give a toss that he wasn't around often. Am I.supposed to pretend I was to fit the cliche?

Or am I just horrendously in denial about stuff?

All I can think.is if I had what I though was a fairly normal and good childhood and I'm as fucked up as I am, my kids stand no chance :(

[Janecc]

overthehill

[OvertheHillandFar]

The stuff about doing a psychology degree then going into marketing is just bizarre, frankly

Why is it bizarre? There are plenty of psych graduates in these careers. Are you not aware of degree- career paths?

There was an implication here - from another poster, agreed- that the Relate counsellor 'didn't have a degree in psychology' and therefore wasn't 'qualified'. You compounded that idea by saying your trauma was dealt with by a psychologist.

Psychology is a broad church- there are all kinds of psychologists. I spend a lot of my professional life talking to child and educational psychologists. None of them are counsellors. I accept you saw a clinical psychologist. I did read all of your post and - amazingly- I did actually understand it. I was making the point that anyone who is a psychologist is not automatically a counsellor. This is what your post and other people's suggested.
So go and stuff your comments too and stop being so rude.

[Janecc]

Getting back to the point in hand. Op. Have you decided what you will do? This person sounds pretty poor.
I've had good counselling and bad counselling (trainee at MIND was sacked) as well as had CBT and seen a clinical psychologist. I have been both challenged and at times misunderstood. I agree with the majority of people all saying to find someone else. It is so important to have trust and a rapport. You have neither of these things and this lady has turned from being your counsellor and an objective facilitator to abusing your trust.

[Arkhamasylum]

So, anger management.

That WOULD be a counsellor, right?

[Twinklestein]

Childish response to being challenged

Erm, she didn't challenge anything?

[Arkhamasylum]

OvertheHill

I didn't imply any such thing. You haven't read (or at least understood) what I've said, although it wasn't particularly complicated.

All psychologists aren't clinical psychologists but all clinical psychologists ARE psychologists. I didn't imply anyone was a psychiatrist. I didn't say psychologists were counsellors. And I didn't bash Relate.

The stuff about doing a psychology degree then going into marketing is just bizarre, frankly.

MY GP DID REFER ME TO A PSYCHOLOGIST. A CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST. Unless you or your friends or your children's friends have knowledge of my life, please refrain from correcting me about things which happened to me and which you don't know about.

FFS.

[FATEdestiny]

clearly you're not the brightest button in the box

Childish response to being challenged

[OvertheHillandFar]

The reason that 'marriage counsellor' is not used often is that Relate and counsellors work with couples who aren't married, individuals, and with a whole range of issues which have nothing to do with being married or even with a partner. Relate used to be called Marriage Guidance Council but then changed its name so it was broader and more 'pc'.

[OvertheHillandFar]

Ark I don't need your links, but thank you anyway. I have 3 close friends and some colleagues who are counsellors though they do prefer to be called psychotherapists which recognises their training / degrees.

Your statement said that your GP referred you to a psychologist who was able to deal with your trauma. You also implied that a psychologist was a synonym for a therapist / counsellor or even a psychiatrist. Someone else (I think) queried the Relate counsellor's training asking if she was a 'psychologist' as if that was a pre-requisite.

As I said, I know many people with degrees in psychology who have gone on to work in marketing, the media, sales, banking, accountancy- you name it! They are not remotely qualified or interested in counselling as a career. A clinical psychologist has to undergo further training over many years.

I don't think it's right or helpful to bash Relate and suggest it's a type of inferior training; it's often horses for course. I've known people who have got a lot of help via Relate. My own experience of them was 'fair' - I felt the counsellor was working to a format and pulling strategies out of her bag of tricks over 6 sessions. It didn't help me and we agreed to stop.

After that I saw someone else who was BACP trained, more 'qualified' if you want to go with the suggestions here, and she was worse. She put me under pressure to continue when, after 4 sessions I felt she wasn't helping- she was too quiet and very much clock-watched (which I know they do, but she'd break me off in mid sentence and say it was time to stop.) She also said nothing each time I arrived for a session other than 'Hello come in.' Then she sat and stared at me. She didn't ask how I was, what my agenda was for that session or anything. She became quite agitated when I said I'd not continue 'How will you make your decision?' she asked quite pointedly and I felt glad to escape.

Counselling is about having a rapport. Training isn't the be all and end all (and by that I don't mean people should practice if they are untrained.)

[Twinklestein]

And of course not all psychologists are healthcare professionals.

There are so many different types - experimental, forensic, evolutionary, industrial etc...

[Twinklestein]

No they really don't, particularly people who aren't educated to degree level. The difference between psychiatrist and psychologist passes many of the general public by.

[RonaldMcDonald]

Psychiatrists and psychologists are health care professionals and their titles are protected as such. Pretty much everyone knows the difference between them and "counsellors" of which all the others are lumped into by the general public

There is difficulty in delineating the others as many counsellors now claim to be psychotherapists. There is hardly anyone accessing services who uses the terms psychoanalyst as opposed to psychotherapist. Most are unaware of the difference or that they exist seperately from each other.
I feel a bit sorry for actual psychotherapists and some highly trained CBT therapists as they are often lumped together in the same pot as counsellors befrienders etc now and their training is more extensive

[Twinklestein]

Ark - no worries, I understood why you were peeved.

Additionally I have never heard of anyone speaking of counsellors or therapists as psychologists

I have. I've heard people describe psychotherapists as counsellors; psychotherapists, psychoanalysts and psychologists are often confused; and some people don't know that psychiatrists are medical doctors and can prescribe, whereas the others aren't and can't.

[RonaldMcDonald]

Additionally I have never heard of anyone speaking of counsellors or therapists as psychologists. Literally, never. I have heard of some of the more robust talking therapies referred to as psychological therapies but their different practitioners are always clearly what they are.

The difference between a psychologist or psychiatrist and a talking therapist is a mile wide.

I'm sorry if I seemed unclear in that

[Arkhamasylum]

Twinkle

OK. If someone had asked me to clarify what I meant, I would have done so. Instead, I was accused of not knowing what I meant in a clearly patronising manner.

I was also chided for the use of 'marriage counsellor', which still seems to be in fairly common usage. But really, who cares?

Apologies to the OP for my part in derailing her thread. She was definitely not being unreasonable.

[RonaldMcDonald]

Twinkle

Simply because someone does not agree with your PoV it doesn't mean that you should attack their intelligence. Play the point not the person.

My experience of Relate is that it is good and bad like many other services. I do know that many of its therapists are already fully trained counsellors who then specialise in couples work via Relate. Others are not but their training is to a regulated Level 5 Diploma. I would assume that those standards are rigorously assessed and maintained by the CACPB as they fit within an educational standardised framework. Unless you are a govt assessor I will go with the CACPB's judgement and not yours on the matter of the standard and quality of training.
I have experienced Relate to be good at referring clients on who are suffering from DV/A and those who are perpetrators. I accept that like anything else this may be simply a very well run Relate but equally I doubt it is the only one.

I think a huge number of people enjoy great success working with Relate to find an answer to some of their problems. Like anything, some people don't.
Counselling isn't always what we hope for and can be too painful or risky to fully engage in at times. Sometimes we know it is ourselves with the problem at other times we project our problems onto the therapist in order to feel better.

I am not suggesting that this is the case with the OP.

[Twinklestein]

I know that post wasn't aimed at me, but to be fair Ark, some people use the term 'psychologist' loosely referring to all psychological services - including psychiatrists, psychotherapists, psychoanalysts, psychologists and even counsellors. And some people don't necessarily know the difference.

It wasn't clear from your original post whether you were using it loosely or specifically.

[Arkhamasylum]

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/psychological-therapies/psychotherapist

[Arkhamasylum]

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/psychological-therapies/clinical-psychologist

[Arkhamasylum]

OvertheHill, I saw an NHS psychologist for three years. I also studied the subject at university for two years. As RonaldMcDonald pointed out, psychological services are run differently all over the country, so my experience may be different from yours. I agree that it's a 'branch of science' (great description, by the way), but the NHS employs psychologists to deal with patients, not just psychiatrists.

Can I suggest you read what I actually wrote, which was entirely based in my own experience? Can I then suggest where you can shove your patronising attitude?

[OvertheHillandFar]

Ark Can I suggest you investigate what a psychologist actually does? I think you are possibly confusing psychiatry and psychology- and psychotherapy.
The way you keep referring to psychologists means you don't know. eg some psychologists are educational psychologists- they assess children and carry out research into learning. It's a branch of science rather than 'counselling'.

Very few people use the term marriage counsellor now. It's dated. The term used is 'counsellor'. Training varies but I did look into training with Relate and it's not as simple as some people here are suggesting- certainly my local branch which offered training did so over 3 years. That covered many weekends, plus ongoing theory and case studies, as well as having therapy yourself.

Sure, Relate may not train people as broadly as other courses, but it's not fair to bash them.

[Twinklestein]

There have been many women on here who were deeply unhappy with Relate counsellors, particularly where there has been abuse present in the relationship.

Where did their complaints to Relate get them? Nowhere.

This is because unless a counsellor is responsible for some kind of serious malpractice there isn't actually anything Relate can do other than recommend further training.

[Twinklestein]

Ronald, clearly you're not the brightest button in the box, but I don't need veterinary metaphor to understand how complaints operate, ok? I'm telling you that Relate will not act on this kind of complaint. You can advise OP to contact them all you like, but it will come to nothing.

I have a good way of knowing whether the Relate training is good enough as I seriously considered it myself. A close friend of mine did it and from him I have the entire 3 year course, all his lecture notes (which are minimal), plus all his books from the course - all of which I have read. He is now head of his regional branch and discusses in detail the general problems with Relate.

The reason that I chose not to train as Relate counsellor is because 3 years of 15 days - 45 days in total - is not enough to train as a decent therapist. Additionally, because I am appalled at the quality of some of their counsellors, I am appalled at their woeful and inept handling of domestic violence and general cluelessness when it comes to trauma, addiction, and sexual dysfunction issues.

You are the one who doesn't seem to understand that there is a WORLD of difference between the training of a qualified clinical psychologist and a psychotherapist - and the kind of counselling training that Relate peddles.

A therapist experienced in dealing with sexual trauma would not force a client to discuss it, particularly not with someone else present. That in itself is evidence that she is not well-trained.

[RonaldMcDonald]

BTW trauma referrals are treated differently all over the UK. Often a psychiatric referral is needed to access them and the team,under the lead of a clinical or counselling psychologist, discusses suitability before assessment for the service. Very often no one sees a psychologist.
In some places it is GP referral into a service.
In some places mental health team referral
In others self referral to a trauma centre where you will simply see a suitably qualified trauma therapist

Just to show that no one was actually wrong earlier

[Arkhamasylum]

Thanks, RonaldMcDonald.

I have to say I'm surprised by this (by which I don't mean that I don't believe you 😄). I thought marriage counselling was about learning to communicate and so on, rather than psychoanalysis.

In any case, it is clear that this approach isn't working for the OP.