To not send my 6 year old to extra Maths after school?

[IHeartKingThistle]

I'm a governor at the school. Eyebrows will be raised.

I'm not sure I care. DS is 6 years old. He is the youngest in the year. In a term he has gone from loving school to saying he hates it. He doesn't, there's lots he still loves, but all he can think about is English and Maths tests. He was quite tearful about it tonight.

Most of the class have been invited to after school Maths sessions. They're not compulsory. He doesn't want to go. I don't want to send him. I expect most of the other children will go.

I don't believe in the SATs system at all (I'm a teacher, but not primary) but I am usually quite careful to be diplomatic in front of the DC. WIBU to put what he wants first for once?

Disclaimer: I'll do some Maths stuff with him at home. I just think a full day of school is ENOUGH.

[Rezolution123]

my2bundles
I agree with you about 6 year olds. I was thinking in terms of older Primary pupils in general.

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

I'm all for raising his confidence in Maths though. Just don't think testing and after school stuff is the way to do it.

Then as a school governor I think you should make that point. If the school wants to improve it's results then if they want your support they need to find better ways of doing so. What are they doing in this tuition? It should be snakes and ladders in a group taught like a club or similar, not actually presented as extra tuition??

My DD is around the same age in Yr 1. As far as I can see a lot of maths is taught like a game. They do 20 second speed tests weekly on simple sums, to "beat their own target" [set by themselves the week before] and then complete what's left. Their teacher uses an iphone to set the timer and finds a new silly sound and it's all a big laugh. They have no idea it's any sort of "test" in the external world and nothing is made of the child who scores 7/7 in 20 seconds versus the child who takes 2 mins to do the same sums well.

[my2bundles]

Resolution, no at 6 years old after school and evening should be free play, winding down, meal time, bath and bed not covering the days work.

[Rezolution123]

It is surprising the number of primary pupils who have done NO MATHS at all during the school day. In my humble opinion the best time for Maths would be in the morning when the children (and adults) are fresh and alert. That is surely the prime time for learning?
After school and in the evening should really be for repeating or practising the work covered earlier on in the day, using the methods shown in class at home when they are working independently.

[thewavesofthesea]

well done OP for standing up against this! I am so glad my son is in a sensible school in terms of SATS; he is not even aware he is doing them, all he knows is that he will be getting a bit more homework (the homework he gets normally is not normally a huge, he can usually do it in about 30-40 mins, excluding reading). He is an anxious child anyway, so this sort of pressure would be horrid for him! It makes me so sad that 6-7year olds are being tested and stressed out like this

[mamaduckbone]

YA absolutely NBU. My son is also 6 and I'd be horrified if he were expected to attend booster groups. Thankfully he seems to have no idea what SATs are at present.

I'm a primary teacher btw and the least inclined to do any extra work at home towards tests. All we did over the Easter hols was a bit of reading (and lots of playing.)

[incywincybitofa]

I think the deputy head was very un-professional, and I am going to buck the trend and say whilst the NC has changed, is it the curriculum or the teaching that has caused your son to be perceived as in need extra help?
If so many children need more help I would be inclined to suspect the latter.
Our son was removed from his school owing to poor teaching and bullying, and the school "could only apologize" for each incident of harm and for the fact that in a year our son whose teacher had said he was doing "very well" every time we asked, had not gone up a subset and it was months since his reading level changed.
The TA was teaching maths to most of the class, and by her own admission "only got a C" on her third try.
I could rant about pressure and targets but in this case the blame lay very firmly with the teaching-other teachers (and TAs I assume) in that school did an amazing job, just not his.

[dairymilkmonster]

I think you are right.
It is just too much for such a little person. They are tired after school. I am very glad my ds1 (who has ended up at private school due to being unhappy and bored at his previous school) doesn't have to do all these various assessments that seem to cause panic and stress and teachers and kids. Our school does little internal spelling tests but ds doesn't seem to really notice them yet (yr1).
I think the school should be able to teach what is required in the school day! Why can't they do this when other schools can......?

[Marilynsbigsister]

Well done you !!! In 12 yrs time will you remember (or want to remember) that you sent him to some govt ordained maths class , or the fact that you had time with your ds having simple fun... I know what I would cherish!...

[MistressDeeCee]

Just scrolled up more and saw you haven't sent him. Thats good, and you were right anyway

[MistressDeeCee]

Don't send him. Its not compulsory why should he be pushed to do what he doesn't want to do, for the sake of what others might think? The stress and unhappiness will be on him, and thats not fair.

DD1 hated maths at school. I got her workbooks, we did maths at home which brought her up to a reasonable standard. I didn't pressure her at all, and made sure to praise her when she did well. She was placed in the top group once at secondary school but was really, really stressed by the work. I went in to the school spoke to her (very understanding, thankfully) Maths tutor who agreed to move her down to the "middle group" - she was much happier hence so was I, no sense of ohhh no she's not in the TOP group. We didn't care.

She got an A in her Maths GCSE, she wouldn't have if she'd remained struggling and anxious in the top group.

[skinofthericepudding]

This really makes me angry! You are right: children work very hard at school and certainly don't need any catch up classes like this. I teach Y2, and wouldn't dream of running this kind of after school -torture- club.

[FarAwayHills]

YANBU

I've heard of extra lessons for Y6 SATS and that's bad but Y2 is crazy stuff.

All this testing is ridiculous and totally pointless. Has anyone produced any evidence that any of this testing in primary has improved things?

[glamorousgrandmother]

Good for you!

[IHeartKingThistle]

Thanks so much for the support. He came out of school happy today at least! I did not let him stay for the extra Maths session.

The assistant head who was running it came out to speak to me as she assumed I hadn't got the letter! She was definitely surprised that I wasn't sending him and said something about the pressure they are under. Which I utterly sympathised with of course, then repeated my reasons with a couple of 'he's 6 years old' s thrown in for good measure. Then we ran away.

It felt kinda good.

[glamorousgrandmother]

*Turns out this has happened to the whole class, and that her 'problem' is her 'inability to decode nonsense words as she seems to need context to decode a word rather than using the approved diagraphs as clues'.
*
Sadly, the year 1 phonics test involves decoding nonsense words - nothing to do with reading really.

[Knockmesideways]

I'm with you SJL2311. I really don't get this obsession with kids doing revision for this sort of test. When DS (who's almost 9) did his year two SATS we were asked by the school NOT to mention them. They did them like mini quizzes or assessments, which the kids were used to as the school works to individual levels in the infant classes. We weren't even told when they did their phonics test until afterwards in case we pressurised the kids. The teachers were adamant that the test was to help them sort out what the kids needed for the next stage of schooling - not a competition about who was 'best'. They did have little quizzes to do but that was to get them used to the format and it was a case of 'do them if you want to' rather than set homework.

DS's school does Mathletics (a computer based maths programme) and there is a Mathletics club which you can elect to join after school. They also do a class before school each week which is for the children who struggle a bit - but the teacher makes it so much fun that DS was disappointed that his friend was invited to go and he couldn't! In this case the teacher had a word with each parent, explaining why the school felt the child should attend and if they agreed to the child going, printed out brightly coloured invitations. If the parents said no, that was that. As I say, it became a really cool thing to be invited to so much so they've had to put on an after school club so the kids who weren't struggling or those who wanted extra maths don't feel left out!

So YNBU at all. There are ways of encouraging kids and this isn't one of them. As someone else said I'd be a bit concerned that a school had to do group revision for SATs!

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

tb I'mnot sure what your point is? Those of us with kids in the German system know how the German system works, your post reads as if you think we have no idea about anything except the time school finishes for 6 year olds...

[Wordsmith]

When my DS was in year 6 (last year) there were extra maths and English booster sessions after school because the head was determined to get a high proportion of level 5 and 6 passes at SATs. DS didn't want to go so I said he didn't have to (I HATED the SATs pressure) and I got a call from the deputy head saying I was letting DS down and that he really did want to go because they'd 'had a chat' about it and she knew!

He was on a School Action Plus ILP and when he sat his SATs tests, he did so on his own in a room with a teaching assistant. I strongly suspect she helped him with the answers as he got a level 5. He was delighted, me not so much as I knew it would put extra pressure on him for targets in KS3 and KS4. He is not a natural above-average in maths. His Y7 teachers have worked that out and he is in a mid-low maths set at the moment. Trouble is that Level 5 SATs result still means he will be targeted to get an A (or whatever it will be then) at GCSE in 5 years' time. If he doesn't get that, he will feel a failure. That's the kid he is.

Horrified that they are doing it for KS1 SATs as well. Just say no.

[cornflakegirl]

I am a primary governor, and DS1 is in Y6. His class were given SPAG work to do over Easter and a letter about how important revision is. He didn't do the homework. SATs are for the school, not the child, and we will not be cramming for them.

Do some extra maths if you feel it will be useful. (DS2 who is in Y2 did do his times tables homework, because I think that fast recall of tables is really useful, and also because he wanted to.) But don't do it for the test.

[starfishmummy]

Governor or not, what matters here is your ds and if you can provide the support and help he needs at home then that sounds fine.

I suspect others are so enthusiastic because it means they don't need to do anything at home and get a bit of free childcare!!

[centigrade451]

You know what is best for your child. Stick to what is good for his wellbeing.

You can upskill him at home, and make it more fun (hopefully).

[tb]

OP, I agree with you - if it's for your ds's benefit then all well and good. If it's to cover shoddy and/or incompetent teaching then let them whistle.

If at a later date, he really has a problem, there's always Kumon.

For those who find 3pm a late finish, I never finished primary school before 3.30pm, had homework every night from the age of 7, learned tables up to 12x12 at the age of 7 etc etc.

In my last year at primary school I learned separate subjects of arithmetic, algebra (simultaneous equation and solving quadratics) and geometry - which I always hated. Thank goodness I did modern maths from 11 -16. I also had French and Latin, history and geography and art. Every Friday morning after break without fail we had a Latin grammar paper with the major distraction of the headmaster's golden retriever licking my knee, and then my nose, when I didn't pay her any attention. When she got too stroppy, he used to send her back to her corner by the ink bottles.....

I didn't chose any of this, and in addition to 2-weekly positions in class for points for my house (or team) and written exams twice a year (Christmas and Summer), just took it in my stride. At the same time, on a sunny afternoon, he cancelled lessons and took us out either over the beach, or at high tide, over the hills to run off steam among bracken and heather - with the dog in tow, of course.

The school results - long before SATS - were extremely good. The head knew how to motivate and teach children more than any teacher I had before or since. Shame that teachers like that are so rare.

For those in Germany, the post-war system of education there was based on the current (at the time) British system of primary followed by either grammar school or secondary modern school with the possibility to transfer to grammar school at 12, 13 etc.

DH did that - they carried knives at his primary school, and I refused a grammar school place in the local convent, preferring to go to another school where we rather resembled St Trinian's on a bad day - complete with lacrosse sticks and indecently short skirts. The convent with white gloves in summer, indoor shoes etc etc would have killed either me or the nuns.

[Mishaps]

The sessions will be for the benefit of the SATs and not for the child. You are entirely correct to allow him not to attend. Home life matters too.

They will repeat all this maths when they get to secondary school.