To really not understand this fascination for named people who can't act getting places above really fucking excellent stage actors. Catherine Tate.

[Lanark2]

I don't mean to be nasty, because bad or not, I would love to act shakespeare. Catherine Tate can't act effectively, but there is a feature on her acting shakespeare and you can hear she isn't 'in the part'. She is being mentioned alongside Judy Dench ffs.

Sadly, I also include Kiera Knightly in this. Great as a kid, never really believable as anadult, but still a 'name'.

Odd and extremely unfair.

[LaurieMarlow]

It's really fucking simple. Names sell tickets. West end theatres are businesses like any other and exist to make money.

New productions struggle to get attention without something to lure the punters in. Lots of great shows close because of this.

Cats is an utterly irrelevant example because it was established in a very different cultural climate. It's now an established classic with star value of its own.

[SpongeCakeBigPants]

Agreed. I saw Keira Knightly in The Children's Hour a few years ago in the west end and she was by far the worst actor in it. But, as others have said, she's the one who sold the tickets.

Everything, film, theatre, tv etc needs a 'name' to sell it to audiences. So many brilliant actors don't get a look in.

[cathyandclaire]

Actually I saw Cats when it was first out and there were loads of well known people in the cast. Paul Nicholas was a pop star (Grandma's Party or some other classic!) , Bonnie Langford was well known because of Just William and Brian Blessed was a TV star too ( Z cars), Elaine paige was a star from Evita and Judi Dench who she replaced wasn't exactly unknown!

[LikeDylanInTheMovies]

But, as others have said, she's the one who sold the tickets.

As a result of which less famous but equally deserving talents in the cast gained several months of work and exposure that they wouldn't have otherwise got if the production had opened with unknown leads and closed within a week. That goes for the behind the scenes people too.

Lanark I really don't get what is hard to understand what is 'odd' or 'unfair' about a commercial venture wanting to maximise their chances of making money and being a success. Yours is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

To paraphrase

[BlueMoonRising]

Cats.

You mean the show that, on a recent run, starred Nicole Sherzinger as Grizabella?

Yeah, they aren't interested in names.

[Lanark2]

Likedylanetc um. True. One can also sell container loads of cheap shit and make a fast buck. I am talking about something deeper than you understand too, but simply if you sell a product on a premise that is then undermined by the product, you get diminishing (audiences) returns.

Not if the 'name' is good, but the name should be better than the alternative. Should be, on one level because otherwise it's damaging but also should be because a name should have greater resources, with from now, or from the reputational investment, to develop the role and part.

The trick for the theatre is to use good celebrity marketing and audience development in the other direction, and morec awareness if the real benefits. Agents representing the 'name' aren't going to do that, they want the myth to continue, but that would be real winning.

As for 'qualifying' meaning 'effective' by default, that just isn't true.

[bookishandblondish]

Oddly I saw Keira in the children's hour, and while not the best actor (Bryony Hannah completely stole the show) she wasn't bad - just not as good as elizabeth moss and Bryony Hannah.

Judi Dench - seen live several times - essentially when she's talking, you listen and watch.

Rachel Weiz - saw her in streetcar and the entire production was brilliant.

The most bizarre surprise was Lindsay lohan who did a decent job of her part ( I wanted to see Richard Schiff and got the understudy who did a really good job)

Should also add, I've spent a fortune on theatre tickets and have seen loads of duds but if you're good on stage, you do get noticed - have seen quite a few people move from students through to decent parts in west end/ key theatres

[SeamstressfromTreacleMineRoad]

I too saw CT in Much Ado - she was fantastic. She's a very good actress (just not so good at being interviewed - she seems to need a part to 'hide' behind) and well-trained.

[MistressDeeCee]

What with celebs in live theatre, TV, alongside the deluge of reality programmes, pickings out there are getting ever slimmer for trained actors looking to get into regular work. We live in a celeb-obsessed culture so I suppose the ensuing and accepted dumbing-down is inevitable. The middle classes who can afford year long internships leading to TV production work as mummy and daddy can fund it, sadly not often the case for working class families, makes for a mind-numbing same old same old tv experience too

[WhereYouLeftIt]

"Catherine Tate can't act effectively, but there is a feature on her acting shakespeare and you can hear she isn't 'in the part'. "

Well, I saw her in 'Much Ado' and thought she was absolutely 'in part' so I have no idea what you mean. I have seen several versions of 'Much Ado'; Kenneth Branagh's and Joss Whedon's on DVD, Tate's version in London, Meera Syal's at the RSC (2012?) and the most recent RSC production a couple of years ago (no big names). Oh, and Siobhan Redmond/Alex Jennings sometime in the 1990's. All these versions had different settings (16th? century Italy, contemporary USA, 1970's Cyprus, contemporary India, 1918 England, 16th? century indeterminate) so put a different twist on the play. She was absolutely 'in part' for 1970's Cyprus.

It's fair to say I see a lot of Shakespeare, mostly by the RSC at Stratford-upon-Avon. Occasionally they use 'names', mostly not. Sometimes they become 'names' later. Honestly, Tate can feel perfectly proud of her performance.

Oh, and as for comedians doing Shakespeare - Josie Lawrence was brilliant as Kate in Taming of the Shrew and I've probably seen quite a few others over the years. By and large, comedians have good timing, which lends itself to drama.